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 Post subject: Re: Breitling 1191
PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 5:00 am 
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pro

Dial print and the 'B' seems genuine and all printing is very sharp

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 Post subject: Re: Breitling 1191
PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 7:01 am 
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Dracha wrote:
furthermore : (not all conclusive but all things considered it doesnt add up)

'stainless steel back' , wasnt that reserved for GP and/or chromed pieces ?

Is the breitling logo on the back engraved / sandblasted / etched ? , that needs to be stamped

is the 1191 engraved ? (looks like it) that needs to be stamped as well

'swiss made' without the T(s) ?


Can see that back, handset, and Swiss made on other 1191s, e.g. Better photo could tell if stamped or not.

https://mentawatches.com/product/breitling-chronograph/

Serial number is 1960. The red sweep makes me think it would be early 70s maybe, during the crazy days of using up old parts?


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 Post subject: Re: Breitling 1191
PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 7:12 am 
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vintage wrote:
In my opinion it looks like a redial. If you look at the printing on the sub registers the numbers are overlaying the curvature of the sub register instead of being completely on the flat portion. I can't find that's the case on any other dial of this style.

Image

In addition, I think the hand set isn't correct for the watch either.


Is the only reason you think its a redial because of the sub registers? Wouldn't this take great skill to do so with such fine printing? Omega Speedmaster dial's from the same period have the numbers on the curve as well


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 Post subject: Re: Breitling 1191
PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 7:19 am 
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Montys wrote:
Omega Speedmaster dial's from the same period have the numbers on the curve as well


Question would be "Which period" though.

And why does it matter what happened at Omega? Did they use the same dial supplier (Singer I think?)


Last edited by buddman on Sat Jun 03, 2017 7:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Breitling 1191
PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 7:19 am 
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Dracha wrote:
furthermore : (not all conclusive but all things considered it doesnt add up)

'stainless steel back' , wasnt that reserved for GP and/or chromed pieces ?

Is the breitling logo on the back engraved / sandblasted / etched ? , that needs to be stamped

is the 1191 engraved ? (looks like it) that needs to be stamped as well

'swiss made' without the T(s) ?


The case is chromed so the inscription is correct. I would expect a dial from the period to have no "T" either side of the Swiss made. The logo and 1191 look stamped to my eyes(photo attached). Thanks for taking the time to debate my watch. I think it might. E difficult to prove this either way.
ImageImage


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 Post subject: Re: Breitling 1191
PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 7:21 am 
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In the absence of another example, it's going to be one for the jury....


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 Post subject: Re: Breitling 1191
PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 7:23 am 
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buddman wrote:
Montys wrote:
Omega Speedmaster dial's from the same period have the numbers on the curve as well


Which period?

And why does it matter what happened at Omega?


My 1969, 1990 and 2002 all do. I only mentioned Omega as I know they have that feature and they don't make their own dials. Who made Breitling dials?


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 Post subject: Re: Breitling 1191
PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 7:25 am 
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Serial number for your case is ~ 1960.


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 Post subject: Re: Breitling 1191
PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 7:28 am 
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buddman wrote:
Serial number for your case is ~ 1960.
I know as those are the only dials to have in front of me but have photos of dials from as far back as 1958.


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 Post subject: Re: Breitling 1191
PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 8:04 am 
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Montys wrote:
vintage wrote:
In my opinion it looks like a redial. If you look at the printing on the sub registers the numbers are overlaying the curvature of the sub register instead of being completely on the flat portion. I can't find that's the case on any other dial of this style.

In addition, I think the hand set isn't correct for the watch either.


Is the only reason you think its a redial because of the sub registers? Wouldn't this take great skill to do so with such fine printing? Omega Speedmaster dial's from the same period have the numbers on the curve as well


I have no issue with the case or movement, it should have a signed crown but I can't see it (commonly replaced anyway). The perceived issue with the sub register printing is all too common on reprinted dials (and the first place I look when I have suspicions) and I have seen reprinted examples where the Breitling printing on the dial is almost like original except a little larger. I looked for another original vintage black Breitling dial with printing on the sub register curve and couldn't find one.


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 Post subject: Re: Breitling 1191
PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 9:12 am 
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told u come to the right place for multiple opinions ;)
in the countryside w/ bad connectivity, will comment in depth on Tuesday - could the dissenting opinions please provide correct examples of very late 50s 1191 ?

and the address of a dial refinisher that can do this print and aged lume quality ;)



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 Post subject: Re: Breitling 1191
PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 11:57 am 
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Montys wrote:
The case is chromed so the inscription is correct.


agreed

Montys wrote:
I would expect a dial from the period to have no "T" either side of the Swiss made.


I would expect to see the T's (for Tritium) on dials that have tritium , if they dont have T's I expect to see no tritium on the dial or in the hands

Montys wrote:
The logo and 1191 look stamped to my eyes(photo attached). Thanks for taking the time to debate my watch. I think it might. E difficult to prove this either way.


Case markings do indeed look correct closer up


so case looks to be from a 1191 , now its just a matter of deciding whether or not the dial and hands are original Breitling and original to this watch , and honestly I am leaning to 'no its not'

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 Post subject: Re: Breitling 1191
PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 12:06 am 
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Montys wrote:
I would expect a dial from the period to have no "T" either side of the Swiss made.

I would expect to see the T's (for Tritium) on dials that have tritium , if they dont have T's I expect to see no tritium on the dial or in the hands


Would it not be a "red flag" if a dial from the early 60's did in fact have "T's"? It is my understanding that they weren't used until around 1963. Sorry if I come across as argumentative I did buy the watch assuming it was a redial (poor photos), I'm happy with it either way but would obviously be very happy if it turns out to be genuine.


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 Post subject: Re: Breitling 1191
PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 4:02 am 
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Tritium marking on a 1960 dial, René ????
that would be a sure indcation it was incorrect ?


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 Post subject: Re: Breitling 1191
PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 1:35 pm 
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so you're saying its radium ? white radium on a non-waterproof watch ?

If its not Tritium all the more reason to suspect the watch

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