The Breitling Watch Source Forums

Breitling Watch Information Forums, Navitimer, Chronomat
It is currently Tue May 24, 2022 3:54 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 20 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:56 am 
Offline
Breitling Enthusiast
Breitling Enthusiast

Joined: Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:04 pm
Posts: 13
Likes: 2 posts
Liked in: 1 post
I’m looking to understand how much, if any, of the below watch is indeed a Breitling chronograph. I am told the movement is a 28mm Venus 150. The dial seems original - the rest I don’t know. I’m looking to purchase it (well, I’d get this and cash for another watch). I believe the watch itself is quite small - near 32mm.

Thank you in advance for the help!
Phil

Attachment:
5D968327-0B0D-47D6-AF13-F5929FCC67F4.jpeg

Attachment:
99E0F6A2-8993-447C-8D8D-29726CA93FC9.jpeg

Attachment:
3454392C-8549-4696-972A-2F3A75469802.jpeg

Attachment:
81182B9F-F860-42FB-A70E-20703C2419BB.jpeg

Attachment:
077CCB9C-9510-4EB3-948D-CD3C406657EB.jpeg


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2019 11:02 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member

Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2013 11:07 pm
Posts: 475
Likes: 181 posts
Liked in: 180 posts
Looks correct and nice. Yes very small and not super valuable but I personally love it.



seekingseaquest likes this post.
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2019 12:46 pm 
Offline
Breitling Maniac
Breitling Maniac

Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2014 1:06 pm
Posts: 1347
Likes: 227 posts
Liked in: 346 posts
Location: England
Not so sure personally. Signed Breitling bridge on a pre 45 serial number, dial too clean. Looks to be some import code on the balance cock but photo isn’t good enough to read. What is it? Happy to be wrong though!


Last edited by buddman on Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:00 pm 
Offline
Breitling Enthusiast
Breitling Enthusiast

Joined: Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:04 pm
Posts: 13
Likes: 2 posts
Liked in: 1 post
Here are some better photos of the movement. KXF indicates a Zodiac/Clebar movement? Are there exceptions to that?

Attachment:
BADC6289-4F6C-4559-9169-41F8B0ECA66C.jpeg

Attachment:
75204390-B036-47C7-83AC-323DC2FAADDB.jpeg

Attachment:
3B73188E-D795-4B89-B1A5-6C558036BBBC.jpeg


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:07 pm 
Offline
Breitling Maniac
Breitling Maniac

Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2014 1:06 pm
Posts: 1347
Likes: 227 posts
Liked in: 346 posts
Location: England
I don’t think there are exceptions. Interestingly though, Clebar did sell some Breitling watches, I’ve read from late 40s onwards.


Last edited by buddman on Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:10 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member

Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2013 11:07 pm
Posts: 475
Likes: 181 posts
Liked in: 180 posts
Agree with Dave who has better eyes than I do!!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:14 pm 
Offline
Breitling Enthusiast
Breitling Enthusiast

Joined: Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:04 pm
Posts: 13
Likes: 2 posts
Liked in: 1 post
Okay, thanks guys! Any hunches on the dial and case?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:17 pm 
Offline
Breitling Maniac
Breitling Maniac

Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2014 1:06 pm
Posts: 1347
Likes: 227 posts
Liked in: 346 posts
Location: England
The dial says Singer on the reverse, so that’s pretty conclusive. Probably reprinted. Any makers mark on the case? It says Staybrite, but that isn’t the maker - it’s the type/ grade of steel. Looks to be something else there but can’t read it.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:30 pm 
Offline
Breitling Maniac
Breitling Maniac

Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2014 1:06 pm
Posts: 1347
Likes: 227 posts
Liked in: 346 posts
Location: England
Shouldn’t exclude the possibility that the original balance cock was swapped out for a Celbar one at some point for a service. Anyway, enough about it that makes me unconvinced, but I’m not overly familiar with these earlier pieces.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:40 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member

Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2013 11:07 pm
Posts: 475
Likes: 181 posts
Liked in: 180 posts
Singer is a dial maker as Dave knows. I’ve never seen the backside of one of this era but I think the dial is fine. Admittedly very white which isn’t a good sign but I like the dial. And case.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:45 pm 
Offline
Breitling Enthusiast
Breitling Enthusiast

Joined: Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:04 pm
Posts: 13
Likes: 2 posts
Liked in: 1 post
Thank you all for the help!

I just see a line engraved into the inside of the case back - attached are higher quality photos. I asked the seller if there’s additional writing as well.

Any clear signs of a redial besides the color? I’m a pretty avid Omega collector and agree a clean dial is not a good sign, but it does happen!

And any idea of age? It looks 1940s to me but if the serial on the case back is a Breitling one then it seems it would be earlier?

Attachment:
A2D5C32F-7158-4F32-BED7-5DB08DC970EA.png

Attachment:
BF2990B7-64AC-4F4D-B897-047AEF6C0D4A.png


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:08 pm 
Offline
Breitling Maniac
Breitling Maniac

Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2014 1:06 pm
Posts: 1347
Likes: 227 posts
Liked in: 346 posts
Location: England
Serial number would be earlier than 45, but “Breitling ltd” on a bridge is apparently early 50s at best. So, inconsistencies....

Dial for me would be clean with bright colours only if it was porcelain.



vintage likes this post.
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:54 pm 
Offline
Breitling Enthusiast
Breitling Enthusiast

Joined: Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:04 pm
Posts: 13
Likes: 2 posts
Liked in: 1 post
Alright, I got another photo from the seller. Breitling Ltd is also stamped on the inside of the case back.

For what it’s worth on the dial, I’ve seen it in person and the metal bands around on the dial and the textured circles on the subdial shout original to me. I’m not a Breitling guy though so open to my gut being incorrect here. On Omegas I’m able to identify subtle inconsistencies in dial design - wondering if you guys see any here?

Attachment:
9652DC7E-F17C-46A9-99AD-C61A599B41EB.jpeg
Attachment:
43EE3572-7F81-46C4-A964-277EFFBBB366.jpeg


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2019 9:38 pm 
Offline
Breitling Maniac
Breitling Maniac

Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2014 1:06 pm
Posts: 1347
Likes: 227 posts
Liked in: 346 posts
Location: England
Still have the problem of Breitling Ltd being 1950s and a serial number that isn’t
I also don’t like how the stamped Breitling bridge is a different metal finish from the rest of the movement.
Also don’t like the font of the inside caseback engraving - looks italic / slanted.
Also don't like how engraving has been removed from the inner caseback above the word "Swiss". Someone is trying too hide something....
Dial does look good quality printing though.

Mystery continue but but not legit for me. Improper import codes, non matching metal finishes, engraving removed, inconsistent serial number. You have to rationalise hard for reasons for it to be right and really if should be the opposite- the clues should add up to tell you its correct.

Omega world is different - huge volume of pieces with a vast amount of redialling in their largely dress watch catalogue. Here you’ve picked up a very unusual piece from a chronograph specialist company.

WatchFred hasn’t commented yet - I’ll ping him and see if he has any insight. he will know more about these than me.



vintage likes this post.
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2019 11:36 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member

Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2011 4:36 pm
Posts: 14166
Likes: 1433 posts
Liked in: 1682 posts
Location: Vienna, Austria
quite the conundrum.

serial indicates very early 1940s production, basic dial design and logo fit that period, just as the "Staybrite" stamping on the case.

marking on chrono bridge and caseback is 1950s, "Breitling LTD." didn't exist in the early 1940s.

Dave, Clebar was one of the importers of Breitling watches into the US before Icko Wakmann established Breitling Watch Corp. in 1947, so that again would fit the "very early 1940s.

watch looks basically correct and authentic - maybe somebody creative thought the unsigned bridge & case were incorrect for this watch and added these stampings later or the watch went to Switzerland for major repairs/restoration and later markings were added to re-import it (remember that these were requirements by US customs)?

all very theoretic - afraid we'll never have a definite answer here.



buddman likes this post.
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 20 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
cron
 




Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group