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 Post subject: Over at the Rolex forums
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 8:02 am 
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Interesting observation, over at the Rolex forums all folks can talk about is the value of the sports watches and justifying paying over MSRP for a watch. It is lunacy. What is the fascination with Rolex values. I would like to buy one to add to my collection but I am not going to pay over MSRP and or deal with some back alley gray market seller. It is a mass produced product, unbelievable.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 6:33 pm 
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I'm glad I got my SubC over 6 years ago when there was no wait. The best way to get these watches is to work with a great AD who takes care of loyal customers. It would be very difficult to buy any SS sports models without any history. I'm not saying it can't happen, it just may be difficult. If you don't like reading about the values of SS sport models, don't even venture into the Patek forum to discuss the prices of Nautilus and Aquanaut models.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 9:12 pm 
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superpop wrote:
What is the fascination with Rolex values.

The obsession over value is because people want watches they can't get at retail, so it's a continual sore point that is dominating discussion. It's like wanting a woman who isn't interested in you, such that you can't stop thinking about her. I think the better question is what is the fascination with Rolex the brand, such that people want it so much more when it is in short supply. Personally, that kind of thing turns me off; if I can't get it on my own terms, I tend to look elsewhere.

Like Justin, I got my Sub before all this started. I post at TRF, but I'm a bit mystified by the obsession. Sometimes it takes odd turns. There was actually a thread the other day started by someone who wanted a sports model, but since he couldn't get one, he wondered if a Datejust configured a certain way would "count" as one. That's a sign that some people are so hung up on the brand, they can't see straight any more. Rolex is a great brand, but it's only one brand of many.

For the record, there are some very good, respected gray sellers out there. They're not back-alley, but they do know their products' worth, so they charge what they can for the models that a lot of people want but can't get at retail. It's the people willing to pay above MSRP that make that possible.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 9:46 pm 
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To the OP it’s crazy how Rolex manages to stay relevant to so many people. Everyone has there theories of what causes the shortages, whether or not Rolex actually restricts the supplies is ultimately hearsay.

I was one of the buyers too that was able to grab a few models, like Justin mentioned it helps having a good relationship with a solid AD. With all the hype right now it’s very hard to get models that I want and like others, paying over retail is something that I just won’t do. That said though by the time I am able to get my hands on both the new BLRO and ceramic Daytona, it will be more than it’s current retail. As the French say “c’est la vie”.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 3:15 am 
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Sadly, it's just a classic case of supply and demand. Whether supply is being artificially restricted by Rolex or not (and there are strong advocates on both sides of that particular argument), the fact is that at the moment demand far outstrips that supply. All the time there are people prepared to pay over the odds for the instant gratification of owning the thing they want, then this crazy concept of paying over RRP will continue.

The last SS BLRO I saw for sale in person was in a non-AD watch shop in London a few months ago. The RRP here in the UK is around £6800 : the one I saw in London was up for £16,995. Over twice retail. Not being able to wait for a thing and needing instant gratification is such a 21st century, "1st world" conceit. And it's not something I will buy into.

Over the years I've been through a whole range to feelings with regard to Rolex. First it was love, then it was hate, then a kind of love-hate, and for the past few years now I absolutely love them again. The reason I love them is because I truly believe that for what they DO (i.e. make very robust, immaculately finished, iconic, incredibly classic and timeless, tool/sports watches) then there really is no-one better. Sure, to buy into that concept, you have to like the aesthetic and you have to accept that their design moves forward at the speed of an arthritic snail, and the fact that as a brand they are a total law unto themselves, but for what they DO, no other brand comes close. However, for all that I still categorically refuse to ever pay over RRP for any watch. At the end of the day it's JUST a watch, and there is no way on earth I'm going to line some grey-market dealer or flipper's pocket to the tune of several thousand pounds just because I can't wait. Utter craziness.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 8:24 am 
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Driver8 wrote:
Sadly, it's just a classic case of supply and demand. Whether supply is being artificially restricted by Rolex or not (and there are strong advocates on both sides of that particular argument), the fact is that at the moment demand far outstrips that supply. All the time there are people prepared to pay over the odds for the instant gratification of owning the thing they want, then this crazy concept of paying over RRP will continue.

The last SS BLRO I saw for sale in person was in a non-AD watch shop in London a few months ago. The RRP here in the UK is around £6800 : the one I saw in London was up for £16,995. Over twice retail. Not being able to wait for a thing and needing instant gratification is such a 21st century, "1st world" conceit. And it's not something I will buy into.

Over the years I've been through a whole range to feelings with regard to Rolex. First it was love, then it was hate, then a kind of love-hate, and for the past few years now I absolutely love them again. The reason I love them is because I truly believe that for what they DO (i.e. make very robust, immaculately finished, iconic, incredibly classic and timeless, tool/sports watches) then there really is no-one better. Sure, to buy into that concept, you have to like the aesthetic and you have to accept that their design moves forward at the speed of an arthritic snail, and the fact that as a brand they are a total law unto themselves, but for what they DO, no other brand comes close. However, for all that I still categorically refuse to ever pay over RRP for any watch. At the end of the day it's JUST a watch, and there is no way on earth I'm going to line some grey-market dealer or flipper's pocket to the tune of several thousand pounds just because I can't wait. Utter craziness.


I agree with almost all of the D8, my opinion differs from yours on the 'what Rolex do'. IMO they build a solid watch, but i don't think they do that better than a lot of other brands. What they do-do better than any other brand is marketing. The demand and hype are all a factor of the iconic brand they have built and the recognition of the brand.

Personally there are virtually no Rolex models i like, don't like the aesthetics, don't think they are innovators and i particularly do not like the fact that there are so many fakes and that any Tom, Dick or Harry recognizes it's a Rolex.

i will stick to primarily Breitling, IWC and JLC, perhaps piking up one Panerai as 'affordable' brands and aim for that special Lange or Patek in years to come.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 9:26 am 
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Quote:
I agree with almost all of the D8, my opinion differs from yours on the 'what Rolex do'. IMO they build a solid watch, but i don't think they do that better than a lot of other brands. What they do-do better than any other brand is marketing. The demand and hype are all a factor of the iconic brand they have built and the recognition of the brand.


:yeahthat

I have never been a big fan of Rolex and the only one I liked was the James Cameron edition of the Deep Sea. The only reason I cared for it was that it was so un-Rolex. No cyclops on the dial, a dial that actually was unique for Rolex and the fact that it was 44mm. All of these features drew me to the watch because they were not traditional Rolex design features. I was able to pick one up a couple of years ago when they were difficult to find. The only reason I did so was that it was made available to me unexpectedly on my 60th birthday!

Earlier this year the wife and I took a road trip down to Florida, to pass the time of day we stopped at multiple Rolex AD's and listened to various stories about how wonderful Rolex watches were and how hard it was to find the stainless steel sport models. By the end of the trip we both had a hulk and I way sporting the white sky dweller. I have since traded my hulk and I am looking to do the same with the James Cameron. Although they are nice, I truly believe that there are others just as nice if not better for the price!

Everyone mentions that you need to develop a relationship with an AD in order to obtain hard to find models. What does the average Joe do who has finally saved up enough for his grail Rolex and is then told by the AD that you need to spend $100,000 or more in order to be eligible to be put on the Daytona list. Most people can not justify numerous $8,000 watches in order to finally get the one that they want. Rather than chase them, I too will be looking at another JLC, Glashutte Original or maybe a Vacheron!


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:25 pm 
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No problem at all if you disagree with me, lads! :)

There's lots of reasons why people dislike Rolex (or believe other brands are "better") - and quite a few of those reasons I've been through myself. During my 'hate' phase, I was struggling to see what all the hype was about, and the "rabidness" of so many die-hard Rolex fans irritated me to the point of disliking the brand itself. Over time though I've just come to seriously appreciate them for what they are. They aren't haute-horlogerie ; with the exception of the Skydweller they aren't making complicated movements (unlike JLC for example)- but what they are doing is making incredibly functional, simple but well-made, and (in my experience) deadly accurate sport watches. Sure over time the price and level of finishing has increased and moved them away from their tool roots, but the essence of what they always were remains.

And while they aren't exactly "daring" with their exterior designs, internally they are actually quite innovative. Always quietly fine-tuning and refining their movements over the years for ever-increasing reliability and accuracy. My 3 Rolex's have all kept within +/-2 seconds, even my old Sub LV. I genuinely believe that for 3 hand sports watches they're unbeatable for build, accuracy and timelessness.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:07 pm 
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Man, I got sucked into another Rolex pricing thread over there. I guess I shouldn't even go into them. I have no stake in the situation besides academic curiosity, but when I see people saying nonsensical things like, "The fact the prices are continuing to rise proves there's no pricing bubble," I have a hard time not replying.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:25 pm 
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Driver8 wrote:
No problem at all if you disagree with me, lads! :)

There's lots of reasons why people dislike Rolex (or believe other brands are "better") - and quite a few of those reasons I've been through myself. During my 'hate' phase, I was struggling to see what all the hype was about, and the "rabidness" of so many die-hard Rolex fans irritated me to the point of disliking the brand itself. Over time though I've just come to seriously appreciate them for what they are. They aren't haute-horlogerie ; with the exception of the Skydweller they aren't making complicated movements (unlike JLC for example)- but what they are doing is making incredibly functional, simple but well-made, and (in my experience) deadly accurate sport watches. Sure over time the price and level of finishing has increased and moved them away from their tool roots, but the essence of what they always were remains.

And while they aren't exactly "daring" with their exterior designs, internally they are actually quite innovative. Always quietly fine-tuning and refining their movements over the years for ever-increasing reliability and accuracy. My 3 Rolex's have all kept within +/-2 seconds, even my old Sub LV. I genuinely believe that for 3 hand sports watches they're unbeatable for build, accuracy and timelessness.


Totally agree with you driver! They make a really solid product with solid QA before it leaves the manufacturer.

In the beginning I struggled with seeing the love for the watches. But over time they grew on me. I now own 3 modern day classics. A subc LN, LVC and a BLNR. For me they cover a lot of bases and I’m very content.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:26 pm 
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JacksonStone wrote:
Man, I got sucked into another Rolex pricing thread over there. I guess I shouldn't even go into them. I have no stake in the situation besides academic curiosity, but when I see people saying nonsensical things like, "The fact the prices are continuing to rise proves there's no pricing bubble," I have a hard time not replying.


If I had a dollar for every post on there complaining about the shortage, I'd have enough to buy the pepsi GMT at market cost. It's good reading over there but I really can't commit to posting that much on there.

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 Post subject: Over at the Rolex forums
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:30 pm 
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JacksonStone wrote:
Man, I got sucked into another Rolex pricing thread over there. I guess I shouldn't even go into them. I have no stake in the situation besides academic curiosity, but when I see people saying nonsensical things like, "The fact the prices are continuing to rise proves there's no pricing bubble," I have a hard time not replying.


You can’t argue with the guys over there because in their minds they have already justified why it’s ok to pay more. The way I see it is like this, if you have the funds and want it now and are willing to pay to have it then be my guest. Fortunately Or unfortunately I’m just not one of those people that will pay over msrp.

It was hard for me not to comment on the over retail price thread. There was some guy that posted something to the affect of “I come from a conservative background, if I can’t afford to buy two then I don’t buy one”. This kind of logic is borderline retarded. So I replied “so I guess if a person can’t afford to buy 2 houses then he or she should not own one” .





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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:39 pm 
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boogiebot wrote:
This kind of logic is borderline retarded.

I got an infraction from a mod over there for using that word. :uplaugh:


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:41 pm 
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JacksonStone wrote:
boogiebot wrote:
This kind of logic is borderline retarded.

I got an infraction from a mod over there for using that word. :uplaugh:


Oh wow I had no idea. The infraction seems retarded, pun intended of course


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:54 pm 
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superpop wrote:
I think what most people are saying is that Rolex, like many other manufacturers, is making a mass produced product in the sense that the watches they make are not a limited run and then they stop, or even a numbered run. They could make BLRO's for 10 more years if demand was there. That is why there is all the bubble hype. These are modern mass produced fashion jewelry with a great marketing team. Keep in mind, the fanatics on this board represent a fraction of the Rolex buyers out there, and the bulk of the buyers are like sheep that will flock to the next "look at me" item in vogue in 12 months. What is disappointing is that Rolex is letting this hype ruin the buying experience for folks that want to have the true AD experience and turning off folks that may want to buy their first Rolex. This will punish the brand in the future.


I'm borrowing your quote from TRF, but I doubt this will ever do anything to damage Rolex in the future. I'd also argue against calling them fashion jewelry. This isn't a Michael Kors, Gucci, or Armani watch. While there are quite a few people on TRF, there are still tons of people out there who have no issue getting these watches and don't go on watch forums.

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