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PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:35 pm 
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The Speedy is the one that confounds me most. Sure it has provenance and all that good stuff, but I've owned a couple and on the wrist they are simply meh. I can't believe the Speedy's provenance is any greater than the Subs. In fact, I consider the Speedy to be one of the most overrated and overhyped watches -- there is nothing that special about it. I would have voted the Sub the entire way, even over the perpetuals. Heresy, right? No, because I'm not voting which is the most complicated watch, I'm voting which I believe is the best regardless of complications - that includes history/provenance of the watch, consideration of the brand, personal taste, styling, breadth of use, reliability and other factors. It excludes price. Otherwise, let's just line up all the perpetuals we can think of under $25k. I think there is a knee-jerk voting reaction - it's a perpetual calendar, so it is better. No, it's a perpetual calendar, therefore it is has a more complicated movement, which may or may not make it a better watch. Is every tourbillion ever made better than every other watch ever made? I could tick off a list of 50 3 hands or Chronos under $15k I would rather have than many perpetual calendar pieces.

There seems to be a ... Oh boy... somewhat of a sophomoric approach to the rational for much of the voting. Now I'm in trouble. But what I am inartfully trying to convey is there is much, much more to what constitutes a great watch than the degree of complications! To see it otherwise leads to illogical conclusions such as, "every Chrono ever made is a better watch than every 3 hand/date ever made." "Every three hand/ date ever made is a better watch than every 3 hand/no-date." "Every chrono day/date is better than every Chrono/no date." That's what I mean by sophomoric - there is no finesse to the decision-making process.

And while I'm at it, the Perpetual Senator outlasting the Panolunar is ridiculous.

Maybe this will spice things up a tad. :twisted:

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 7:29 pm 
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I'm surprised as well by which GO and JLC made it this far. I love GO as a brand, but that particular GO isn't even in my top 3 or maybe even my top 5 for just GO as a brand. And I understand the popularity of the speedy and I own one, but I wouldn't put it in the top 4 watches overall. The IWC is one of the only dressy watches that I actually like, but that's coming from someone who really isn't into dressy watches at all.

The final 4 definitely didn't turn out how I would have guessed. I think the GO and JLC offer a lot of complications for the money and maybe that is what people are prioritizing, but there are multiple cheaper offerings from both those brands that I would take over these. Maybe these would be two of the best movements under $25k, but they aren't the top 4 overall watches in my opinion.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 8:54 pm 
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Awwright, now we're spicing things up a bit. Time to let loose a little, should have done it before.

I confess, I'm on the Speedy bandwagon. Maybe I need to own one and have long-repressed interest in the watch--it was one of the three I considered as my first "nice" watch before getting a Rolex-- the Navitimer was the third. The Speedy has an aura about it for the obvious reasons, and if you're over fifty, as I am, and was a wide-eyed kid glued to the television during the space missions, the greatest human adventure of our lifetimes, its easy to buy in. I think it was Aldrin who wore it more than once in space, then on the moon, and continued to use it after that, all bone-stock. Perhaps a Sub or a Navi or a Bulova Astronaut could have done it too. But, and maybe it was only because the crystal would crack rather than shatter, the Speedy was the one that did.

About the Sub--I own a two tone blue dial, wanted one forever, and should have bought it ten years ago. My watch guy has told me for years about they are not the best movement, but a sublime combination of excellent movement and durability, with the tight case and screw-down fine adjustment. What other watch do some people assume is a fake because that just can't be real can it? I don't care if its marketing, it still had to live up to the marketing, and the Sub did. And yet, unless you deep dive every week, I personally can't think of ANY way in which it is as good as the GMT, save timing an egg. It will dive as deep as most of us ever will, and has a complication most of us would actually use. I would vote for the GMT 10 out of 10 times over the Sub. It was my first nice watch, and the only reason I don't now have a GMT is because I'm such a sucker for the two-tone blue.

I could have seen the GO Panomatic Lunar making the finals. I don't care for the dial on the perpetual. I admire a lot about GO, and yet at times, maybe the Pano lunar is the reason, they seem to me a junior-level Lange. That's not fair, but there it is.

I didn't fully get IWC until I owned one. Mine's three editions back now, but as much as I enjoy my Sub, I have to admit that my Aquatimer 3536 is a better-built watch in every aspect but the movement. It doesn't have the "burned in my brain" look of the Rolex, but the craftsmanship in the piece blows the Rolex away. I know they went cheap in some of the newer models, but the 7-day models have a feel that, to me, oozes quality. Final four is a reach for me, but top eight, not at all.

If there's a watch here I have been following for the wrong reasons it's probably the JLC. Part of it is also detail, as you could put this up against a Patek, and I for one could not justify the ridiculous extra dollars. I'm not even that big of a perpetual guy, but I just happen to think JLC is, across the board, the best movement maker. Polarizing though it is, I would still be voting for a Reverso.

And no Navitimer. I don't know whether to offer a pat on the back for objectivity, or suggest a kick in the butt for not having the Navitimer in the top four, in a Breitling forum. This is no fanboy forum, but the Navi legitimately deserved a spot here. I almost wonder if a watch lost because of the movement, even though the B01 seems to have moved well beyond its teething pains. To even consider that reflects how flummoxed I am about this oversight. Of the respective brand icons, the Navi is among the most recognizable, and probably the most functional. Losing to the GO perpetual, here, is to me the biggest shock of all.

Finally, personal selfish note, AP out in Round 1, I think it was? If you own a stainless piece costing over 5K without some super-special movement you owed the Royal Oak a vote, or should confess now to hypocrisy.

There, rant over, stepping down from soap box. Discuss amongst yourselves. :wink:

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:07 pm 
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On second thought, maybe the fact of over $5K stainless pieces is why nobody voted for the RO. Nah, you wouldn't have as high a level of stainless pieces today without it.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:50 pm 
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See, see? There we go!! Nothing is sacred, not even the venerable Speedy. :nono:


Come on the rest of you know-nothing's, this could get fun like the old days. What has happened here when we let mutual drooling over iced Lings go without at least an :roll: ? Are we to become a fan-boy mutual admiration forum.? Are we not men?!




Look at these. The pastels are absolutely stunning!






Image




"Oops, I did it again." :nana:

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 3:03 am 
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sharkman wrote:
The Speedy is the one that confounds me most. Sure it has provenance and all that good stuff, but I've owned a couple and on the wrist they are simply meh. I can't believe the Speedy's provenance is any greater than the Subs. In fact, I consider the Speedy to be one of the most overrated and overhyped watches -- there is nothing that special about it. I would have voted the Sub the entire way, even over the perpetuals. Heresy, right? No, because I'm not voting which is the most complicated watch, I'm voting which I believe is the best regardless of complications - that includes history/provenance of the watch, consideration of the brand, personal taste, styling, breadth of use, reliability and other factors. It excludes price. Otherwise, let's just line up all the perpetuals we can think of under $25k. I think there is a knee-jerk voting reaction - it's a perpetual calendar, so it is better. No, it's a perpetual calendar, therefore it is has a more complicated movement, which may or may not make it a better watch. Is every tourbillion ever made better than every other watch ever made? I could tick off a list of 50 3 hands or Chronos under $15k I would rather have than many perpetual calendar pieces.
There seems to be a ... Oh boy... somewhat of a sophomoric approach to the rational for much of the voting. Now I'm in trouble. But what I am inartfully trying to convey is there is much, much more to what constitutes a great watch than the degree of complications! To see it otherwise leads to illogical conclusions such as, "every Chrono ever made is a better watch than every 3 hand/date ever made." "Every three hand/ date ever made is a better watch than every 3 hand/no-date." "Every chrono day/date is better than every Chrono/no date." That's what I mean by sophomoric - there is no finesse to the decision-making process.

And while I'm at it, the Perpetual Senator outlasting the Panolunar is ridiculous.

Maybe this will spice things up a tad. :twisted:

Wooo, shaking the tree a bit there Sharky. :lol:

@"the bit in red above" - I agree that just because a watch has a complicated movement it doesn't mean it's instantly better. However, when I feel absolutely no personal connection or affinity for ANY of the remaining 4 in the competition, then I've got to find some distinguishing USP to make me vote for it. And for me that's a cool movement, a unique look, and decent size case.

If the Ploprof had still been in the running I'd have been voting for that like a shot. If there were any of the Panerais left in the comp I'd have been voting for them. If the Subbie was still in, I'd be voting for that (as I did all the way through the competition). The majority of those are all simple three-handers.

But out of what's left, the one I'd most like to own is the GO.... hence my voting. And if you vote any differently, then you're just plain wrong! :nana: :wink:

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 3:16 am 
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Well I feel like I should respond to that photo with "nice" as that seems to be the default response to hideous watches on BreitlingSource these days (see, even I can do it).

The results have to be at least in part due to the low vote count, but that also means that those of us that don't get the final four have a bigger say with each beach individual vote (which makes it even harder to get).

I think that fundamentally the fact that we opened things up to nominations from the start meant that we had a less than ideal mix of watches in the pool, at least from my perspective. That would have been OK if enough people had been involved to allow the cream to rise to the top, but there you go.

I also wonder whether the results would have been different if I had included images of the watches in the voting threads that instead of just links - was it too much effort for people not familiar with the watches?

I guess now it doesn't matter, we aren't changing minds here, but it is turning into a very odd set of results. Perhaps those of us that have been here longer and are on the right side of 40 are just getting out of touch with this place......


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 3:45 am 
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sharkman wrote:
Maybe this will spice things up a tad. :twisted:


no, it won't, Tom.
just four grumpy old men scratching their greying heads.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 4:14 am 
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Driver8 wrote:
when I feel absolutely no personal connection or affinity for ANY of the remaining 4 in the competition, then I've got to find some distinguishing USP to make me vote for it.


that +1

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 4:20 am 
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5 grumpy old men


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 4:26 am 
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4 grumpy old men, 1 grumpy middle aged man (who will never have to worry about greying)

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 4:34 am 
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Roffensian wrote:
I also wonder whether the results would have been different if I had included images of the watches in the voting threads that instead of just links - was it too much effort for people not familiar with the watches?



Maybe, but clicking on the links worked just fine for me , even on an Ipad mini . And it took me to watches that I didnt expect to see :-) and some links I didnt even have to click as I just dislike the brand no matter which model is referenced

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:40 am 
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Roffensian wrote:
4 grumpy old men, 1 grumpy middle aged man (who will never have to worry about greying)

:lol:


Suffering from early hair loss problems Andy? :-)
Whatever it is.
Men don't get "old", we just "mature", apparently :-)

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 8:54 am 
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I hear ya Sharkman. While I actually love the Speedy, I'm shocked it is still in it. Actually my biggest shock is that the Navi 01 is out due to the crowd. Beyond that the speedy has me amazed. I also agree that complications don't just make it a "better" (whatever that means) watch. I've approached my voting with a few criteria in mind. Mostly what would I be most likely to strap onto my wrist between the two given head to head candidates. I don't have a big soft spot for the overly dressy. While I can appreciate a watch with a ton of provenance, elegant lines and timeless look...I'll probably never own one as I don't get that dressed up that often. Initially I am drawn to a chono over a three hander, but had to restrain my voting and ask myself is it really better just because it has more "stuff" going on? No there are some great three handers out there with no date that I would personally much rather have than a mega-dollar collection of stuff thrown onto a dial...some Hubolts quickly to mind. Great watch I am sure and well beyond my means, but really does nothing for me. I did find myself voting for IWC several times...but it was more voting against the opponent not really for the IWC, still I gained a greater appreciation for the IWCs. Uniqueness was also a factor for me. If it was totally different to me given my limited exposure I tended to like it. In house movement and price I gave zero weight to...mostly because I am new to all of this.

Agree that pix in the post would have helped voting most likely. I did find it a PITA to go clicking/hunting for them and some did not show on first try. But good gawd how can we really complain about that small bit of effort over what Roff put in. Still I'd guess most casual viewers of the threads were not willing to click 128 links first time around so they did not vote on all or any. As other have said Roff, thanks much for the effort...it has to be a real disappointment to put that effort in and see so little participation.

I thought we would see Sub vs. Navi overwhelmingly from start to finish. I am glad we did not.

On a side note I have really been digging the Omega commercials during the Olympics anyone else like?


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:03 am 
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This is good. Well done Tom.
sharkman wrote:
And while I'm at it, the Perpetual Senator outlasting the Panolunar is ridiculous.

Couldn't agree more. I am way more a fan of the PanoLunar; really don't like the look of the Perpetual Senator.

I took the time to look back through the initial votes and have come to the following conclusions:
- I agree that Roff was right in that we had a less than ideal of watches in the mix from the start;
- I can't believe the Navi01 didn't make it though, and lost out to the Perpetual Senator, particularly on a Breitling forum;
- I'm not surprised that the JLC is still in the mix;
- I'm surprised the AP RO didn't make it further;
- I'm 50/50 on the Sub losing out to the Speedy. I like both watches and think they're both great pieces. The speedy does indeed have the moon thing (and I voted for it) and the thing is I'd happily own both. Probably the closest vote for me.

I voted based on everything I can think of - looks, movement, history, name etc....and it's been tough at times, as it should be. As I reviewed the earlier rounds I mostly couldn't fault the voting. Everyone has a different opinion with none more correct than the other. I'd happily own 3 of the last 4 watches so it can't be all that bad.

Let's do this again but with a different mix at the start. What do you think Roff :poke: :wink:

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