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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 7:47 pm 
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jnelson3097 wrote:
superpop wrote:
I think what most people are saying is that Rolex, like many other manufacturers, is making a mass produced product in the sense that the watches they make are not a limited run and then they stop, or even a numbered run. They could make BLRO's for 10 more years if demand was there. That is why there is all the bubble hype. These are modern mass produced fashion jewelry with a great marketing team. Keep in mind, the fanatics on this board represent a fraction of the Rolex buyers out there, and the bulk of the buyers are like sheep that will flock to the next "look at me" item in vogue in 12 months. What is disappointing is that Rolex is letting this hype ruin the buying experience for folks that want to have the true AD experience and turning off folks that may want to buy their first Rolex. This will punish the brand in the future.


I'm borrowing your quote from TRF, but I doubt this will ever do anything to damage Rolex in the future. I'd also argue against calling them fashion jewelry. This isn't a Michael Kors, Gucci, or Armani watch. While there are quite a few people on TRF, there are still tons of people out there who have no issue getting these watches and don't go on watch forums.


Yes they’re definitely not Michael kors, Gucci or Armani.

There is a cult like following for the Rolex pieces. I do however find it strange that the date just is probably their number one selling piece yet one could walk into any Rolex dealer and buy one that day. You would think the sub C and GMT C would be similar but for whatever reason it’s not.

I was able to get a BLNR 2 years after it’s release and I believe I waited roughly 4-5 months.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:27 am 
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When I started considering watches as a hobby (collecting a few), I always thought of Rolex as a top watch brand. My parents talked about how iconic it was and how you got a gold Rolex when you retire and all the successful doctors, lawyers and professionals all wear them (association with success). Even the media promotes the distinction of people who where a Rolex to those who do not. Even 007 wore a sport watch in a tuxedo. I will give it to the brand as it’s an reputation institution where it rides on innovation (when “waterproof was as important as today’s 4G data speed is a must have), hold its resale value (who wants to buy something that you will have to sell for less - Ford Fusion vs Toyota Camry); and the person’s Ego (getting something your average person can’t). “Well Isn'T That Special“ by Church Lady. This is where I think price and availability comes in the most. When people see a Rolex on the wrist of a man, many times they see someone who can buy an expensive product and build an impression how successful they must be (in this example).

As my maturity grew in age, collecting and watch knowledge, I found quality is as important as what I personally like. So, a year ago I told my partner that I wanted a Rolex Sub’ and I wanted it as a gift. Something to mark the special occasion (thanks mom and dad :wink: ). Well, I did to my spouse the worst thing you can do to them, tell them to go out and get a watch for you. It was a horrible experience. They called Rolex’s ADs in our area and also tried ADs as far as NYC. They normally said the same thing which you hear from ADs all the time. “Well Isn'T That Special.“ I remember once many years ago when I first looked at buying a Rolex that there was this one sales guy who told me that Rolex wasn’t that good of a watch. Forward to today and helping my spouse navigate the AD B.S. to buy a Rolex for me. We walk in to a large AD in our area and there was the same sales guy who now is telling me how great Rolex was and how people come in every day to buy a Sub’ and can’t because they are so in demand and we had to wait xyz months/years. Well, looking at the empty case of Rolex watches and if I made my commission on selling them and having people coming in every day to buy one; I would be mad at the brand since that $150 to $300 or what-every in commission I’m losing. Nevertheless, he tried very hard to get us into a more expensive Rolex (again, how this other model was only going to increase in value although it was something I didn’t want). So I did like all watch collectors do, tried a few smaller ADs and called them up. To my pleasure they had the Sub’ I wanted and not over the SMRP (oh, should I say there was a discount). So I guess I became “special” or “preferred.” We made the arrangement for my partner to get the watch and it was out of my hands.

What I found is that the small AD told me that Rolex holds back on watches to retailers by importance. Sometimes if you’re a larger retailer it’s good to show that you do not have stock to have the impression of how much in demand your products are. A lot more people walk in to Tourneau than Billy-Bob jewelry store who sells Rolex. SMRP has a lot to do with it too. If you have people buying at full price, then you send more watches to those retailers. As long as you can keep up the exclusivities.

An the over-all fear of fakes, the average person (including my partner) do not know a watch beyond the name and its looks. Buying a used Rolex normally comes with anxiety (buying a real one, has the parts been replace, damaged, did I pay too much and so on..). And the same can be said for grey market watches being sold. Just wait until someone imports that Chinese version of the Range Rover Evoque over here!

It’s a watch, good watch but a watch.
Ego booster, or not…


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:23 pm 
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I may have popped over to the Rolex forums specifically to say “it’s a bubble”

Hilarity ensued



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:56 pm 
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superpop wrote:
Interesting observation, over at the Rolex forums all folks can talk about is the value of the sports watches and justifying paying over MSRP for a watch. It is lunacy. What is the fascination with Rolex values. I would like to buy one to add to my collection but I am not going to pay over MSRP and or deal with some back alley gray market seller. It is a mass produced product, unbelievable.


Just head over to the Rolex forums and say “it’s a bubble”. They freak out!

And yes, paying 150%-200% of MSRP is insane.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:07 am 
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boogiebot wrote:
Driver8 wrote:
No problem at all if you disagree with me, lads! :)

There's lots of reasons why people dislike Rolex (or believe other brands are "better") - and quite a few of those reasons I've been through myself. During my 'hate' phase, I was struggling to see what all the hype was about, and the "rabidness" of so many die-hard Rolex fans irritated me to the point of disliking the brand itself. Over time though I've just come to seriously appreciate them for what they are. They aren't haute-horlogerie ; with the exception of the Skydweller they aren't making complicated movements (unlike JLC for example)- but what they are doing is making incredibly functional, simple but well-made, and (in my experience) deadly accurate sport watches. Sure over time the price and level of finishing has increased and moved them away from their tool roots, but the essence of what they always were remains.

And while they aren't exactly "daring" with their exterior designs, internally they are actually quite innovative. Always quietly fine-tuning and refining their movements over the years for ever-increasing reliability and accuracy. My 3 Rolex's have all kept within +/-2 seconds, even my old Sub LV. I genuinely believe that for 3 hand sports watches they're unbeatable for build, accuracy and timelessness.


Totally agree with you driver! They make a really solid product with solid QA before it leaves the manufacturer.

In the beginning I struggled with seeing the love for the watches. But over time they grew on me. I now own 3 modern day classics. A subc LN, LVC and a BLNR. For me they cover a lot of bases and I’m very content.
Driver8, I always enjoy your posts. Your educational explanations appeal to me. I as most watch lovers have I believe ventured into the Rolex fanatical watch forum. I personally do not like to post in the Rolex fourm as one is always in danger of hurting their feelings to the point of their need to hurl personal insults. A gentleman of the Rolex fourm sent a e-mail address, which showed the various tiers of watches, wow. One would have thought the world was in emmitt turmoil. The idea that Brietling was in this same tier as Rolex was harder for the Rolex fourm to believe than the brand Omega was in the same tier.
It can never be anything but a Rolex attitude. Quite a few of these same fourm members have never ventured out of Rolex waters. Sad. I have never felt compelled to belittle one for my own sense of security. Driver8 this is one of the reasons I enjoy reading what you post. Yes, I did own Rolex day/date, which I gifted to a son-in-law. My first purchase was a dress Vacheron. My problem is my current watch is the one I always find myself wearing. Probably because I'm not disciplined or bright enough to switch. Anyway, I find the Breitling fourm much more to my liking. Driver8 and others on the Breitling fourm, I enjoy reading your posts!

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 3:43 pm 
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rlrobson08 wrote:
Driver8, I always enjoy your posts. Your educational explanations appeal to me. I as most watch lovers have I believe ventured into the Rolex fanatical watch forum. I personally do not like to post in the Rolex fourm as one is always in danger of hurting their feelings to the point of their need to hurl personal insults. A gentleman of the Rolex fourm sent a e-mail address, which showed the various tiers of watches, wow. One would have thought the world was in emmitt turmoil. The idea that Brietling was in this same tier as Rolex was harder for the Rolex fourm to believe than the brand Omega was in the same tier.
It can never be anything but a Rolex attitude. Quite a few of these same fourm members have never ventured out of Rolex waters. Sad. I have never felt compelled to belittle one for my own sense of security. Driver8 this is one of the reasons I enjoy reading what you post. Yes, I did own Rolex day/date, which I gifted to a son-in-law. My first purchase was a dress Vacheron. My problem is my current watch is the one I always find myself wearing. Probably because I'm not disciplined or bright enough to switch. Anyway, I find the Breitling fourm much more to my liking. Driver8 and others on the Breitling fourm, I enjoy reading your posts!

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Thanks for your very kind words. I appreciate it.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:22 pm 
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Say what you want about Rolex but it is refreshing to buy one....wear it for 5 years....and then be able to sell it for what you paid 5 years earlier.

Meanwhile, I can't give a couple of my popular Breitlings away that I've had for a couple years......50% loss. I will keep one Navitimer because I love the look and don't care about the value of that....but that will be it for Breitling for me. Not worth it anymore. Whatever Rolex is doing is working....whatever Breitling is doing is not. It's a shame as Breitling has some nice pieces.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:29 pm 
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mjr24 wrote:
Say what you want about Rolex but it is refreshing to buy one....wear it for 5 years....and then be able to sell it for what you paid 5 years earlier.

Meanwhile, I can't give a couple of my popular Breitlings away that I've had for a couple years......50% loss. I will keep one Navitimer because I love the look and don't care about the value of that....but that will be it for Breitling for me. Not worth it anymore. Whatever Rolex is doing is working....whatever Breitling is doing is not. It's a shame as Breitling has some nice pieces.


I have to agree with you on this. Having a SS sports model is like having cash on hand. They move so easy and in cases where you got a discount on them you actually make a few bucks. Not a good investment but it’s nice to know you’re not losing. Yes before you guys jump on me I get that yesterday’s money is different value then today’s money


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 2:13 am 
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No doubt Rolex make a great watch and have unbelievable resale value. They are overpriced in general (Except the DS and Sky Dweller, I think they are fantastic value), my only issue with Rolex is that they are so popular I see them all the time on other people and most models get to be boring after a while. I swear if I see another sub on a suit.....

That said, a few models are fairly rare and have all the Rolex advantages, Deep Blue, Blue SD, Pepesi….

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:01 am 
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Altair wrote:
No doubt Rolex make a great watch and have unbelievable resale value. They are overpriced in general (Except the DS and Sky Dweller, I think they are fantastic value), my only issue with Rolex is that they are so popular I see them all the time on other people and most models get to be boring after a while. I swear if I see another sub on a suit.....

That said, a few models are fairly rare and have all the Rolex advantages, Deep Blue, Blue SD, Pepesi….
Hey, generally speaking you all are correct. Yes, some Rolex are insanely moving apt prices way above retail and stainless at that. But, so are some cars. My AC Corba is an example. My day/date is not in the insanely overpriced column. However, I never bought anything outside of stocks/ bonds and homes thinking anything other then they are in the category of a depreciating asset.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 7:04 am 
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hopefully what Georges is trying to do with closing down grey market channels and streamlining the dealer network in the medium term will help with keeping the value or in the case of watches bought at a heavy discount they may begin to appreciate then stablise.

we can but hope


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 2:22 pm 
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Altair wrote:
No doubt Rolex make a great watch and have unbelievable resale value. They are overpriced in general (Except the DS and Sky Dweller, I think they are fantastic value), my only issue with Rolex is that they are so popular I see them all the time on other people and most models get to be boring after a while. I swear if I see another sub on a suit.....

That said, a few models are fairly rare and have all the Rolex advantages, Deep Blue, Blue SD, Pepesi….


No, I agree...I don't have a few Rolexes because I expect them to appreciate in value. Matter of fact, if I can wear a $10k watch for 5 years and lose a grand....I'm still OK with that. However, with what is going on with Rolex/AP....it is impossible to justify paying full MSRP for any Breitling knowing you will never get close to that back when selling.

I have a Navi GMT which I bought for a great price so I won't lose much, if anything.....but I paid $8k for a brand new Bentley 6.75 in 2015 that I will be lucky to sell for $5k (and the $8k I paid was a good $1500 or so off MSRP). Definitely wish I hadn't have bought that.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 4:08 pm 
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mjr24 wrote:
Altair wrote:
No doubt Rolex make a great watch and have unbelievable resale value. They are overpriced in general (Except the DS and Sky Dweller, I think they are fantastic value), my only issue with Rolex is that they are so popular I see them all the time on other people and most models get to be boring after a while. I swear if I see another sub on a suit.....

That said, a few models are fairly rare and have all the Rolex advantages, Deep Blue, Blue SD, Pepesi….


No, I agree...I don't have a few Rolexes because I expect them to appreciate in value. Matter of fact, if I can wear a $10k watch for 5 years and lose a grand....I'm still OK with that. However, with what is going on with Rolex/AP....it is impossible to justify paying full MSRP for any Breitling knowing you will never get close to that back when selling.

I have a Navi GMT which I bought for a great price so I won't lose much, if anything.....but I paid $8k for a brand new Bentley 6.75 in 2015 that I will be lucky to sell for $5k (and the $8k I paid was a good $1500 or so off MSRP). Definitely wish I hadn't have bought that.
I have never bought a luxury watch from a dealer. Not that I am a huge watch owner. I have only owned three luxury watches. A Vacheron dress watch was my first luxury watch at age 26. It was nice simply because no one really knew what I was wearing. Age 30 my second luxury watch was a Rolex day/date; better suited for me and my work environment at the time. This watch took a beating, never took it off my wrist. In the pool in the ocean many times in the same day. Unlike the VC, everyone knew what this watch was. After looking at the date for 20 plus years I could not be without this complication. And I wanted a chronograph. After several months of trying the Daytona out, plus a little research on this particular chronograph compilation I chose a Breitling. A Breitling 44 GMT 2-TONE. YES, I do find it almost resentful a company retailing this particular watch for $15,600.00 I purchased for $8,350.00 cash. This price included a fifty dollar wire fee. Brand new, papers etcetera, etcetera. Everything but a five year warranty. Is this the reason I purchased this beauty. On the contrary, the B04 is a better movement than the 4130. Breitling also has a better engineered bracelet, case back, bezel, crown. Also, least we forget, 47 jewels, 200 meters water resistant and it is absolutely gorgeous. Black dial, gold subdials. The B01 brought the five year warrenty to the market place. At $8350.00 I feel as if I hung the moon. Let's see, to have all the complications as my Breitling one would have to own three Rolex's. A Daytona , then a GMT, the a sub. I would have purchased from a AD, but the experience is overrated. Besides Rolex, one is not going to experience a huge or small untick in the price. And not all Rolex models are created equal. Spend a quarter of a million on a PP highly complicated movement and and your children can sell it for a house. Or your grandchildren might make a little more than what the original cost was. All in all, who cares. Good luck to all who plan on making any money on time prices. Me, I find what talks to me and then I research this particular watch. I do not have the discipline to give a collection of watches wrist time. Therefore I find one that will work with my lifestyle that I want to wear all the time. Breitling needs to get ahold of their product distribution. For the most part it is a wonderful example with so much heritage. My money is on kern; my advise is to pick up a Breitling now, while the are better than a better bargin.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 4:13 pm 
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Altair wrote:
They are overpriced in general (Except the DS and Sky Dweller, I think they are fantastic value)

I don't wish to turn this into a debate thread the likes of which are seen on TRF, but you tapped into one of my big peeves. By DS, I assume you mean the Deepsea. People are free to like what they like, but I fail to see how that watch is any kind of good value, or that there is even a point to its existence. The DS does nothing functionally that the Submariner and Sea Dweller don't do, except provide an excessive degree of WR that is literally unusable by humans. The outer limit of depths at which humans can dive is about 2000 feet; beyond that, people experience a range of ill effects, including death. Even 2000 feet is extreme; most saturation divers operate at shallower depths. That means the Sea Dweller already covers the functional aspects of what any diver would need in terms of WR, and whose needs exceed what the Submariner can offer (which is a very small percentage of the watch buying market to begin with). The DS WR is pure extravagance. Considering it uses the same movement found in the SD and what eventually will be in the Submariner, the additional cost boils down solely to case construction, developed to achieve the WR. I'm not seeing the value in that.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2019 11:23 pm 
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My Rolex AD just called, said if I paid in full now I can get the BLNR, Blue DeepSea, and Blue Sky Dweller at cost with the next shipment, expected in 1-3 months at cost.



I got excited, then realized how Rolex market-control practices had me completely in their clutches. Here I am willing to pay, full retail, for overpriced (well the SD is not) watches, in the hopes they will be delivered to me something in the foreseeable future. And I am happy about it.


I bow to the might Rolex marketing machine :bow:

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Last edited by Altair on Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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