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| Is this Chronograph a Fake or Franken? https://breitlingsource.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=62755 |
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| Author: | TimNole [ Sun Apr 30, 2017 1:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Is this Chronograph a Fake or Franken? |
Hey all, first of all, thank you for having such an incredible resource available for suckers like me! Second, WOW!! This is an incredible community. @watchfred pointed me this direction, after discussing my dilemma with him. Now, I'd love to have everyones opinion on this piece. Please let me know your thoughts. Fred is convinced it is a fake, and I tend to agree with him.      Thank you everyone, for the help! Hopefully I can get my $2000.00USD back! |
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| Author: | TimNole [ Sun Apr 30, 2017 1:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is this Chronograph a Fake or Franken? |
I should also point out that I purchased this piece from the same dealer that I have purchased all of my other vintage pieces from. Every single watch I've bought from him has been independently authenticated at a later date, so I had no reason to believe that this was a fake or franken. |
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| Author: | davedc74 [ Sun Apr 30, 2017 1:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is this Chronograph a Fake or Franken? |
100% fake. Without question. |
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| Author: | kreyke [ Sun Apr 30, 2017 1:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is this Chronograph a Fake or Franken? |
Look at the subdial. It's off-centred Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | TimNole [ Sun Apr 30, 2017 2:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is this Chronograph a Fake or Franken? |
@kreyke - I know. It wasn't visible to my naked eye, but upon magnifying it, I saw the same issue. Hence what led me to begin questioning the authenticity. |
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| Author: | Roffensian [ Sun Apr 30, 2017 2:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is this Chronograph a Fake or Franken? |
Not to mention he low quality printing, the fact it looks brand new, etc. Poor fake, WatchFred's opinion never needs validating, and this one's not even difficult to call. |
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| Author: | TimNole [ Sun Apr 30, 2017 2:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is this Chronograph a Fake or Franken? |
Well, the photos do make it appear to be much newer than it does in person, and it also makes the printing look much worse. When holding this piece right next to my Premier AND my Top Time, it's quite difficult to tell the differences, aside from what would be "model" differences. So, I'm not seeking to validate Freds opinion, I'm seeking to provide overwhelming documentation and fact that this piece is a fake, in order to get a refund on the two thousand USD that I spent on the piece. I'm not a Breitling expert, even though I own a few. So, what may seem like obvious, glaring issues to this community, or common knowledge, aren't in my wheelhouse. So at least have a little respect. I don't think you would be pleased if you spent two grand on a fake. |
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| Author: | Roffensian [ Sun Apr 30, 2017 2:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is this Chronograph a Fake or Franken? |
Not sure where I didn't show respect, I just didn't give you the answer you were hoping for. It is a poor quality fake and saying otherwise to try and be sensitive to feelings is misleading for people who view this post in the future for reference. I can't comment on how it looks in person, but the photos show a poor quality modern reprinted dial and a bad modern bridge engraving. I would be very upset if I spent $2,000 on a fake - upset with myself for not checking it out before buying. Yeah, I know - insensitive 
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| Author: | davedc74 [ Sun Apr 30, 2017 2:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is this Chronograph a Fake or Franken? |
Can you post pictures of your Top Time and Premier? If they came from the same seller would love to see them too. |
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| Author: | TimNole [ Sun Apr 30, 2017 6:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is this Chronograph a Fake or Franken? |
@Dave - I would love to! I'm traveling this week, but will snap some shots when I get home on Friday. They're pretty neat pieces. Quite beat up, but that's how I usually prefer them. With regards to their authenticity and having come from the same guy, both pieces have been cared for by the number one Breitling service center in the Bay Area since I picked them up in 2014 and 15. So I've got no doubts about them. They also both came with box and documentation. @Roff - No, not insensitive, just rude. Having had a long-standing relationship with the dealer that I purchased the piece from, then comparing it to two verified authentic mid-40's pieces that I already own, in addition to doing days worth of research.....would be considered "checking it out," in my opinion. Please accept my apology for forgetting that you, in your infinite wisdom, have never been fooled, especially when first getting into collecting. It must be incredibly difficult to bear the weight of your infallible judgment and intellect. With regards to not providing the answer I was seeking, I am of the opinion that this watch is a fake, and I was of this opinion prior to posting on this site. What I am seeking, is detailed information that I can provide my dealer, to support the fact that I'm asking for a full refund. What I am NOT seeking, is catering to my feelings, or anything to make me feel better. That's not the responsibility of a group of watch geeks (spoken as a proud watch geek). Again, thank you for your time, everyone. |
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| Author: | Ninja2789 [ Sun Apr 30, 2017 7:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is this Chronograph a Fake or Franken? |
TimNole wrote: Please accept my apology for forgetting that you, in your infinite wisdom, have never been fooled, especially when first getting into collecting. It must be incredibly difficult to bear the weight of your infallible judgment and intellect. Maybe calm down a bit and give a longstanding member of the community some benefit of the doubt. Especially since you're coming here to ask for advice and help. Regards to an iron-clad definitive proof, I think it's more the culmination of evidence. The poor subdial printing. The fact that you have three different fonts for the number "3" on the dial. It sounds like you have a pretty long standing relationship with this dealer. hopefully they will treat you well. If not, then let us know. The community is small after all. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | WatchFred [ Mon May 01, 2017 12:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is this Chronograph a Fake or Franken? |
Tim, just the quick facts to present to the seller. a) all Breitling watches from the 1920s onwards carry serial numbers: 6-digit until late 1964, 7-digit afterwards (one notable exception without serial is the Unitime AVI of the mid 60s and some dive watches with a different serial sequence) - this one lacks any serial number. b) all Breitlings from the very late 1930s carry model reference numbers on the case (very early Navitimers are the only relevant exception) - 7xx for colums wheel chronographs, 11xx for chronographs based on the Venus 188 like the watch you've shown; again missing here, although the earliest production date for a Venus 188 would be 1947. the dial is cleary an incorrect refinish as stated, but we see refinished dials on basically authentic watches too, but in this case we don't even have a Frankenwatch, as no component of this watch is authentic. I understand that this isn't a nice situation, but these are the facts - and there should be no issue with any selfrespecting seller to take that watch back and refund you. |
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| Author: | Ninja2789 [ Mon May 01, 2017 2:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is this Chronograph a Fake or Franken? |
@watchfred I always learn so much from you and this community. Thanks for sharing. Unfortunately, i just saw this on eBay this morning. "Independently verified as authentic" https://www.ebay.com/itm/252911144885 Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | davedc74 [ Mon May 01, 2017 3:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is this Chronograph a Fake or Franken? |
I just saw it too. TimNole - this is so beyond uncool. You are a bad person. |
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| Author: | Roffensian [ Mon May 01, 2017 3:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is this Chronograph a Fake or Franken? |
davedc74 wrote: You are a bad person. Don't be rude, he'll get upset. Perhaps he's just horribly misunderstood and there is a perfectly reasonable explanation for trying to lie, steal and deceive. |
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