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Help for an old , friend?
https://breitlingsource.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=40633		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  BoneDoc [ Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Help for an old , friend?
Hello again all of my old friends. I have been away a long time and, like any pain in the a$$, I come asking for help. At least I'm not asking for money. I need help identifying the attached watch. A jeweler friend took it on consignment knowing nothing about it and hoping he could learn. He is not a watch jeweler by trade and training and asked for my help knowing I own a couple Breitlings. Any help from the kings of Ling would be great. Looking at you Roff!!
BTW he added the band so do not tell me about that. :lingsrock:
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Author:  WatchFred [ Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Help for an old , friend?
might be a correct ref. 178 from the 1940s, but would like to see a
pic of both the inside and the outside of the caseback to confirm.
Author:  Roffensian [ Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Help for an old , friend?
BD - great to see you back, hope things are going well. Woofers say hi (including a new St. Bernard :wowzers ).

Dial looks OK, not convinced on the hands. Movement could be right and it's nice that the bridge is blank as that's the first thing the fakers generally attempt, although we are assuming a 40s date with it being blank. Also, the movement retaining screwlook like it came out of someone's tool box rather than a watchmaker's bench :roll:

As Fred says in and out of the caseback will be revealing.

Stick around, we've got some great new members (Fred being one of the greatest)
Author:  BoneDoc [ Sat Jun 16, 2012 1:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Help for an old , friend?
Thanks Gents, and Hello Fred!
I do not have, but will get, pics of the case backs. There were 2, which I thought was weird, but did not know if the antimagmetic part contributed to that. The outer, I recall, had very faint numerations on the outside, the inner had nothing that I recall. I will get pics of all involved bits and post.
Nice to be back.
New woofer my way too Roff. From a local, but well respected, breeder. Wayeh's Sulusaru'ut Moonlight Serenade. Hoiper to not irritate the moderators with an off topic pic. :wink:
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Author:  WatchFred [ Sat Jun 16, 2012 1:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Help for an old , friend?
well, nice to meet, BD !
the "two casebacks" actually clinches it, Breitling did not use those, so
we have another frankenized Chronographe Suisse here, no
need for more pics, I'm afraid.

Looks like a great dog - mods still not too easy to irritate.

Roff, that pointless porcupine made me chuckle, thanks.
Author:  BoneDoc [ Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Help for an old , friend?
OK Fred, Thanks. But if it's not too much trouble, I will post the casebacks pics when I get them just to get a bit more info for my friend. At least what is real and not. If the dial and movement are genuine that will at least give him some solace. A dissection of what he has will function to educate me (always appreciated) as well as give him the ammo to go back to his client to tell him he has a POS on his hands. :|
Author:  Roffensian [ Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Help for an old , friend?
Gorgeous pup Boney, good to see you back in the fold.

The double caseback is definitely the nail in the coffin and also raises questions on the movement - the problem with them being unmarked is that it's easy to swap them around. The dial does look original.
Author:  Bill in Sacramento [ Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:00 pm ]
Post subject:  It's better to see it in person, but
. . . I don't think the dial is original. The numerals do not match the original Breitling dials, even though it is a very similar style. I don't trust the stubby three-minute markers either.
Author:  WatchFred [ Sat Jun 16, 2012 11:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Help for an old , friend?
BD, will be happy to document why we think the watch is fake or franken,
so your friend can inform his client. Bill might well be right regarding the
dial, although the dial logo is of excellent quality - the numerals do not
exactly correspond to known, verified examples.

The watch case you describe is - and pictures will confirm that - a
"Chronographe Suisse", one of the many thousands of "Tourist"
chronographs marketed in the late 1940s and early 1950s -
most Landeron based, but some, like this, with Venus 170
movements.

Cases were produced by several manufacturers and the watches
were assembled by the many independent small watchmakers
then active in Switzerland - using double casebacks to stabilize
the paper thin 18k casebacks, designed to keep prizes for these
"casual purchase" watches as low as possible.

We quite often see those ending up with Breitling branding, though
the fakers typically add additional - wrong - logos to caseback and
movement bridges, which makes them even easier to spot.

This recent thread shows an example where a seller was kind
enough to leave the Chronographe Suisse original and not rebranded
- and just claim it was a Breitling .....

viewtopic.php?f=31&t=40356
Author:  Roffensian [ Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: It's better to see it in person, but
Bill in Sacramento wrote:
. . . I don't think the dial is original. The numerals do not match the original Breitling dials, even though it is a very similar style. I don't trust the stubby three-minute markers either.



You might be right Bill, but if that's fake they really are getting scary good.
Author:  BoneDoc [ Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Help for an old , friend?
As always gentlemen a fount of knowlede without equal. I will pass it along to my friend. I am sorry for him, but at least he did not buy it outright :roll:
Nice to touch base with the old friends again. :lingsrock:
Author:  Bill in Sacramento [ Sun Jun 17, 2012 8:53 am ]
Post subject:  Agreed
Roffensian wrote:
Bill in Sacramento wrote:
. . . I don't think the dial is original. The numerals do not match the original Breitling dials, even though it is a very similar style. I don't trust the stubby three-minute markers either.



You might be right Bill, but if that's fake they really are getting scary good.


It's why I can't sleep at night . . .
Author:  packrat [ Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Help for an old , friend?
Is it just my tired eyes or is the Breitling name on the dial at an angle?
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