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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:52 am 
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Hi Guys,

As I had suspected of myself, my new hobby is moving closer to "addiction" :lol: ...I have now found (half way around the world) what seems to be a very nice 1962 Navitimer; the year that I was born. Though I was about to pull the trigger on a "Mid-60's" Navitimer (see posts from yesterday), which Roff offered some much-appreciated assistance/clarification, I am willing to spend a little more $$$ to get one that is as ancient as I am.

So, if anyone can comment on anything that might be out-of-step in the attached photos, I would be very grateful. The condition looks excellent, but the price tag is literally DOUBLE what the other "Mid-60's" Navitimer is selling for (in the $7000 U.S. range, so I want to get it right).

Many thanks in advance for any assistance/advice.

Kind regards,

Eddie

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:05 am 
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Well it's a Cosmonaute rather than a Navitimer, and a fairly early one. Price is way too high.

The hands look a litte odd - very yellowed. That may just be age as they are the correct style, everything else looks good.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:34 am 
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Once again, thank you Roff! Though I am confused that it says "Navitimer" on the dial (but, as stated earlier, I am VERY new to all of this). And though I am willing to spend a little more $$ to get a a good 1962 piece that I can wear and be proud of (and be a good start to my collection), I certainly do not want to overpay significantly. So THANK YOU for your counsel as to how this particular piece is being priced!

Eddie


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:45 am 
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Cosmonaute is the 24 hour version of the Navitimer, earlier ones only had Navitimer on the dial.

Alan Trott's articles might help:

http://forums.watchuseek.com/f39/breitl ... 25057.html

http://forums.watchuseek.com/f39/breitl ... -4034.html


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:55 am 
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Well, this should keep me busy for a while. Thank you, Sir!

Eddie


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 2:07 pm 
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over priced is in the eye of the beholder as they are rarely offered but I agree its on the high side but not terribly high as an asking price (with room for negotiation)

the 1962 is a very rare cosmo w/ navitimer dial and wide rice bezel , I know the all back ones reach the $7000 mark and I wonder why this one shouldnt fetch a high price either

I will have to search but these may have only been produced for a month or 2 at the end of 1962 , hence the scarcity

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 2:26 pm 
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Dracha wrote:
over priced is in the eye of the beholder as they are rarely offered but I agree its on the high side but not terribly high as an asking price (with room for negotiation)

the 1962 is a very rare cosmo w/ navitimer dial and wide rice bezel , I know the all back ones reach the $7000 mark and I wonder why this one shouldnt fetch a high price either

I will have to search but these may have only been produced for a month or 2 at the end of 1962 , hence the scarcity



Fair enough Dracha, and agree that it's a relatively rare piece. I suspect that the difference in perspective on the price may reflect our respective local markets .


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 2:39 pm 
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am with René here, last 62 Cosmo I saw for sale was offered with a BIN of $6,500 from the US, with box, it sold quite quickly, they seem to have reached a similar pricing level to V72s.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 3:10 pm 
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Dracha wrote:
these may have only been produced for a month or 2 at the end of 1962 , hence the scarcity


p.s. with 'these' I mean the 1962 cosmo's with these type of hands, the wide bezel and this type of dial . I was told (I believe by Bill ?) that these were transitional models between the all blacks and the ones with later bezel but I will have to look up my correspondance

I would prefer an 'all black' 809 , buts thats personal taste as well as they were the 'original' cosmo's, but that doesnt take away from this one

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 Post subject: Nope. Not me.
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 6:47 pm 
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I don't recall commenting on the 1962 Cosmonautes, but I'm in the smaller school that thinks all of the first-run editions with the wider bezel came with an all-black dial, as per the advertising. I don't know what to make of the versions with the white sub-registers, of which there are many. I think the serial numbers span the range. In other words, the all-black and white sub-register versions seem to be intermingled in serial order. There may not be enough examples to test that, so it's possible I'm making the whole thing up. Can the white sub-register dials be replacement dials?


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 Post subject: Re: Nope. Not me.
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:52 pm 
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Bill in Sacramento wrote:
I don't recall commenting on the 1962 Cosmonautes, but I'm in the smaller school that thinks all of the first-run editions with the wider bezel came with an all-black dial, as per the advertising. I don't know what to make of the versions with the white sub-registers, of which there are many. I think the serial numbers span the range. In other words, the all-black and white sub-register versions seem to be intermingled in serial order. There may not be enough examples to test that, so it's possible I'm making the whole thing up. Can the white sub-register dials be replacement dials?


The "Uhren Trautmann" catalog of the early 60s (does anybody have any leads regarding the exact publishing date of this ?) shows the exact same configuration as the OP post, but branded Breitling above the AOPA logo, white subdials on a beaded bezel 809:

Image

Have to correct myself regarding the pricing issue, went through my records and found two additional relatively recent ebay auctions of beaded 809s that both went below $5,000, so the 7k seem to be stretching the range a little.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 7:48 am 
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One difference though , the 809 that Eddie shows us here has the 'tapered' bezel (see pic courtesy Kurt B) that I pointed to with an arrow

the one in the add shows the normal straight bezel

Now advertisements from that era are notorious for being never up to date , even showing models that haven't been in production for years , so I don't know how significant that is ?

to me that 'tapered' bezel is always a sign of an early Cosmo , or maybe it had its dial and hands replaced as Bill suggests , but the same watch shows on Kurt's article

http://www.watchlife.com/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=144

Image


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:08 am 
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well, we are taking this one a little off the original topic, René, but would you have a look at the following pics, please ?

Two 809s, one from 1962, one from 1963; think both have the tapered bezel ?

a) 1962, serial no. 955431:
Image

b) 1963, serial 973643
Image
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:28 am 
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I dont believe b) 1963, serial 973643 has the tapered bezel ?
it doesnt have the space between the bezel and the sliderule ring ? (which points to a tapered bezel)

I also put both side by side (806 & 809) awhile ago for a similar discussion


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:43 am 
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thanks for this, René, I was unsure about it, but you are definitely right !

Still inconclusive though, as the 62 has the tapered bezel and the white subdials, but of course we have no idea whether the dial is a service replacement or ex factory. :roll:


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