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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 2:43 am 
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http://cgi.ebay.fr/BREITLING-Uhr-Antike ... 3f0f686476

If fake, could you please explain why ? (and not only because "Breitling has been engraved where it shouldn't have, which could have been done on an authentic Breitling later, on the buyer's demand).

Thanks


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 4:45 am 
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Sorry but the Venus 188 movement was not produced until 1949.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 4:55 am 
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Hi Cuervo,

A few things. For a watch so old, it would be (I think) possible to accept that some repairs have probably been made over the years, but this one looks so clean and original. So has it had cosmetic work?

The seller is going to a lot of trouble to show the Reference number, calibre and serial number. The story sounds like it might be reasonable too. He could be picked off by any or all three of the former disclosures if it were not a genuine piece.

I draw your attention to the aviator style crown though. I can’t find any reference to this being used in the period by Breitling, but that’s not to say they didn’t use it. You would need to ask the question on this one.

Ref 336 doe not exist in the resources I have, but they don’t claim to be complete. So look intently for ref # 336 elsewhere and see what you come up with.

Venus 188 was used in the 171, 1185, 1188, 1189, 1190, 1191 to 1199, 2000 & 2002, 2005, 2009/CR. Do any of these make sense to this watch or are my resources too limited (once again)?

Very expensive at this stage in the bidding.

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Jim

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 5:02 am 
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I, like others, have tried to comment by not commenting recently, but looks like perhaps a more obvious comment is needed......


This site has had a lot of issues with people joining and then asking about multiple, obviously fake watches. Almost invariably they are associates of a former (banned) member and over time the posts become suggestions that these obviously fake pieces are not actually fake, just merely 'redone'.

I have no intention of getting into it again. A look at cuervo's eBay history reveals that he is not new to vintage watches and yet he comes here virtually every day asking why obviously fake watches are fake and now we have started with the 'it's not fake just because it's redone'.

Anyone looking at this many vintage Breitlings will have done basic research on model and serial numbers, would have looked at Richter's book etc so I have to wonder what the agenda is here.

Personally I have no intention of being drawn into it and I would suggest that others do the same.

Hungry trolls soon go elsewhere in search of food.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 6:50 am 
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Roffensian wrote:
I, like others, have tried to comment by not commenting recently, but looks like perhaps a more obvious comment is needed......


This site has had a lot of issues with people joining and then asking about multiple, obviously fake watches. Almost invariably they are associates of a former (banned) member and over time the posts become suggestions that these obviously fake pieces are not actually fake, just merely 'redone'.

I have no intention of getting into it again. A look at cuervo's eBay history reveals that he is not new to vintage watches and yet he comes here virtually every day asking why obviously fake watches are fake and now we have started with the 'it's not fake just because it's redone'.

Anyone looking at this many vintage Breitlings will have done basic research on model and serial numbers, would have looked at Richter's book etc so I have to wonder what the agenda is here.

Personally I have no intention of being drawn into it and I would suggest that others do the same.

Hungry trolls soon go elsewhere in search of food.


Strange that you always react in such an agressiv way each time I ask for an advice.

The fact that I bought some vintage watches doesn't make me an expert, therefore my questions.

I am the first one who thinks that many of premiumwatch watches are COMPLETE FAKES so it is rather funny to read that I might be one of his business partners.
You won't help people interested in differentiating a fake from an authentic vintage Breitling by reacting like this.
A constructive answer with an explanation as to why exactly such Breitling model is a fake would be much more convincing, IMHO.
Now if you don't want to answer my questions, there is a very simple solution: just don't answer them but please stop agressing me for nothing.
I am sure there are other specialists who will be happy to teach me and others something, and therefore contribute to making Ebay and the net a less dangerous marketplace.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 7:17 am 
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Dear forum member cuervo,

as you might have noticed I was one of those remaining quiet in your threads, but your rather agressive tone towards our mod makes me break my silence.

You are posting several links to watches every day, some active, some ended auctions, "demanding", not asking for advice, though never adding your comments and knowledge. What is your interest with these ? You asked for advice about the watches you bought from Turkey, hours/days after you reported them as fake to ebay, posing as a newbie.

My theories who you represent are different from Roff's, I would be quite interested to hear what you think about Durner/3montana, the fakefranken superstore and the watches he has on offer and those he "sold" recently
Y:
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=33625

As you dispise fakes and frankens at least as much as we do, you will be happy to hear that the "trusted seller" status was alreadyvremoved from his account and chrono24 will terminate the seller agreement with him shortly.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 7:46 am 
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WatchFred wrote:
Dear forum member cuervo,

as you might have noticed I was one of those remaining quiet in your threads, but your rather agressive tone towards our mod makes me break my silence.

You are posting several links to watches every day, some active, some ended auctions, "demanding", not asking for advice, though never adding your comments and knowledge. What is your interest with these ? You asked for advice about the watches you bought from Turkey, hours/days after you reported them as fake to ebay, posing as a newbie.

My theories who you represent are different from Roff's, I would be quite interested to hear what you think about Durner/3montana, the fakefranken superstore and the watches he has on offer and those he "sold" recently
Y:
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=33625

As you dispise fakes and frankens at least as much as we do, you will be happy to hear that the "trusted seller" status was alreadyvremoved from his account and chrono24 will terminate the seller agreement with him shortly.


It is getting more and more funny.
After accusing me of being one of premiumwatch partners, now I am accused of being this Chrono24 seller...
I looked at the thread and agree that some of his Breitlings look VERY suspicious. Good news if he is banned from Chrono24.
I am in no way a Breitling expert and asked for advice, but it seems that this is too much asking for some members who are a bit paranoiad.
I never "demanded" anything contrary to what you wrote.
I thought this forum was intended to help potential buyers or buyers to know if what they wanted to buy or bought was authentic.
But maybe you are yourself one of these fake sellers who don't appreciate that such questions be asked and that people learn how to differentiate a real vintage Breitling from a fake.
So who tells me that YOU are not premiumwatch or nokwatch or whatever fake watch seller .... :-)


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 1:59 pm 
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cuervo wrote:

I am the first one who thinks that many of premiumwatch watches are COMPLETE FAKES --edited--


No, this is a well known fact on this and other boards and if you made the effort to read older threads you would have seen it posted many times

Mr. Cuervo
One thing that I would like to add is that it looks like you are 'using' the combined knowledge of the forum members to build a watch trading business.

I personally dont have an issue with that, as I buy and sell watches myself as well to fund my collection, but looking at the questions you are asking it seems like you are taking short cuts and not putting in any time investigating for yourself ?

So maybe an introduction would help ? , what certainly helps is answering questions and open a nice general discussion to further our combined knowledge about Breitling vintage pieces ? . Maybe show us your own private collection if you have one ?

And what helps most of all is transparency about your motives . If you want opinions about watches because you are contemplating buying them to sell on , please say so and I am sure people will gladly help.

One final remark about the premiumwatch (or whatever other names that seller uses) , everyone knows .. no need to get excited . And I dont know if anyone else saw/ noticed this , but the asking prices of his pieces are steadily coming down so trading must be 'slow'

Rgds
-Rene

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 2:26 pm 
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When I wrote "I am the first one who thinks that premimwatch Breitlings are often fakes" you misunderstood what I meant.
English is NOT my mother tongue and I meant that I really think that he sells fakes, not that I am the one who first discovered this, of course.
I am a watch collector and have NOTHING to sale. In all my life I have sold only one watch and absolutely do not intend to start a watch business.

I am in fact in real estate and wanted to start a large vintage Breitling collection.

I would like to buy many different models and am just trying to get as much information as possible in order not to be ripped off like I recently was with nokwatch (turkish Ebay seller) and premiumwatch (fake 3 registers).

I am ready to invest about 70 000 euros in this project, for my own enjoyment, not to try to make a few bucks seller them at a higher price.

My only concern is that it really seems that maybe 60 or 70% of the vintage Breitlings on offer on the net are complete or partial fakes.

I only have Richter's book and wanted to know a little more from YOUR COMBINED experiences but have found out nearly each time that few of you were eager to share your knowledge.
I mostly got agressive or paranoiad answers, which is really not what I I expected to find.

BTW, if any of you has a GENUINE vintage Breitling (from the 1920's to the end od the 70's, please send me a private message with pictures and price or URL link.

Hoping that next answers will be a little more constructive and a little less agressive :-)

Best regards,
Serge


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 3:30 pm 
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A few points.........

1) Other people coming here for advice don't find members unhelpful (in fact quite the opposite) so perhaps the issue is not with us?
2) I never mentioned PremiumWatch - you did.
3) Many people here have large collections and they will all say that those collections were built over time, not by buying multiple pieces in a scatter gun approach, and yet you have been asking about a lot of different pieces in a short time - it's logical to come to the conclusion that Dracha has.
4) Don't be afraid to tell us what you think - you'll get a lot more responses than just posting an eBay link with the word FAKE? (especially if you SHOUT).
5) Don't be afraid of saying thank you.
6) You don't have to ask the same question three times to get the real answer.
7) Use the resources that you have - Richter isn't perfect, but reviewing it will answer a lot of questions for you before asking about obvious fakes here.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 3:05 pm 
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I, for one, am grateful to the members of this forum for opening my eyes to NOT BUYING Breitling's from e-bay, as I have ZERO knowledge compared to you guys. Fred saved me $860 USD and for that I will always grateful!

MS


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