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Old Navitimer II - correct bracelet?
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Author:  johnc [ Thu Feb 10, 2011 4:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Old Navitimer II - correct bracelet?
Hi there,
Stumbled across this board and hope one of the experts here can help.

I have an Old Navitimer II (A13022.1) bought around 1995. It has a leather strap and I would like to replace it with a s/s bracelet. I'm having trouble getting the correct bracelet. Here's what I *think* I know - but I'd appreciate any correction/ advice:
1. Correct s/s bracelet is 423A but this is no longer available
2. Current bracelets 420 or 440 *may* fit - but my local agent makes no guarantees and says it's a question of "try & see".

I was given some definitely incorrect advice a while ago, that the 442A would fit. I bought one (more correctly my wife did as a Christmas present) but it most certainly does not fit. Correct width but the contours of the watch & bracelet end are incompatible.

The retailer from whom I got the bracelet is willing to exchange it for a correct one but has been unable (for 12 months) to get the latter from the local agent. Not being certain of the correct model doesn't help, as they are basically saying "please place a special order we may not want". At least I think that's the problem. All I know is that they have achieved nothing.

So, two questions:

1. Please can anyone advise me on the model number of a currently-available bracelet that would fit my watch (if any)?

2. If I decide to give up on the exchange route, how am I best selling my wrong bracelet? I'm reluctant to go to eBay as I've read plenty of warnings that fakes often masquerade as genuine - and I don't want my genuine item tainted (and undervalued). Are there any trusted dealers who buy & sell the genuine article? Or am I being over-sensitive?

Thanks in advance,
John
Author:  Roffensian [ Thu Feb 10, 2011 5:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Old Navitimer II - correct bracelet?
Well bracelets sell on the forums here all the time......

I don't think that there is a 'perfect fit' current bracelet, but bnewbie is the expert so wait for his thoughts. Are you saying that Breitling are claiming not to be able to provide 423A anymore? I'm a little surprised at that as it's not that old a bracelet.
Author:  johnc [ Thu Feb 10, 2011 6:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Old Navitimer II - correct bracelet?
Let me choose my words carefully here... I'm saying that the retailer tells me that local agent tells my retailer that the 423A is no longer available. I sense that there's no love lost between the two, as the retailer discounts and the agent strongly disapproves of that practice. So the info I'm getting may be filtered/ wrong. I hope to be told it's wrong!

There's a wrinkle to this story: When I first started this voyage of discovery the agent told me on the phone that they had a 423A in stock. They were willing to exchange it for my 442A but wanted me to pay them the difference between the full retail price and the discounted price I paid. I declined and said I would arrange an exchange through the retailer. Lo! and Behold! when the retailer contacted the agent the item was no longer in stock and could not be ordered. Unfortunate timing on my part I guess...

Thanks,
John
Author:  Roffensian [ Thu Feb 10, 2011 6:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Old Navitimer II - correct bracelet?
johnc wrote:
Let me choose my words carefully here... I'm saying that the retailer tells me that local agent tells my retailer that the 423A is no longer available. I sense that there's no love lost between the two, as the retailer discounts and the agent strongly disapproves of that practice. So the info I'm getting may be filtered/ wrong. I hope to be told it's wrong!

There's a wrinkle to this story: When I first started this voyage of discovery the agent told me on the phone that they had a 423A in stock. They were willing to exchange it for my 442A but wanted me to pay them the difference between the full retail price and the discounted price I paid. I declined and said I would arrange an exchange through the retailer. Lo! and Behold! when the retailer contacted the agent the item was no longer in stock and could not be ordered. Unfortunate timing on my part I guess...

Thanks,
John



Assuming that you are in the US, call BUSA in CT and see what they say.
Author:  johnc [ Thu Feb 10, 2011 6:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Old Navitimer II - correct bracelet?
Roffensian wrote:
Assuming that you are in the US, call BUSA in CT and see what they say.

I'm not, but it's worth the cost of a phone call. Thanks. I assume BUSA is Breitling USA?
Author:  Roffensian [ Thu Feb 10, 2011 6:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Old Navitimer II - correct bracelet?
johnc wrote:
Roffensian wrote:
Assuming that you are in the US, call BUSA in CT and see what they say.

I'm not, but it's worth the cost of a phone call. Thanks. I assume BUSA is Breitling USA?



Correct. If UK or Switzerland is easier for you contact details are here - http://www.breitlingsource.com/contact.shtml

Grigoros for Canada wouldn't have a clue.
Author:  O2AFAC67 [ Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Old Navitimer II - correct bracelet?
The correct bracelet for your Old Nav II is the 5 segment per link "Old Nav/Cosmo" bracelet which has no model number per se. It has an end link which conforms to the case of your watch correctly and perfectly. The 7 segment per link model 423A Navitimer bracelet was introduced in 1997-98. Like the "Old Nav/Cosmo" bracelet, it fits the 22mm interhorn and tapers to 18mm at the clasp. Breitling had produced a 7 segment per link Navi bracelet for one year (1996-97) which was identical to the 423A except the clasp cover was "straight" (with a semi-circle fingernail lift) in contrast to the "angled" clasp cover of the 423A. Interestingly, the 22-18mm 423A remains the specified Navitimer bracelet for the current A22322 Navitimer Cosmonaute (ETA 2892-A2 with "flyback" chronograph module by Dubois Depraz). When Breitling decreased the taper of their 22mm bracelets and straps in 2003 by 2mm the 423A was the only model remaining at 22-18 vice the others going to 22-20. The wider 431A replaced the 423A for the Old Navitimer in 2003 but not so for the Cossie. Although the 423A end links for the watch head are not "conformal" to the case of either the current Old Nav or your Old Nav "II", it will fit just fine. I have had both bracelets on my Old Nav II as well as both my Cosmonautes, an A12023 Cosmonaute "II" with display back and an A22322 flyback Cossie.
Because the 423A is currently still specified for the 2010 Cossie, I would be very surprised if there is not a brand new one available from either BUSA, BUK or Grenchen. Hope this helps...
Best,
Ron


Some old pics I found on my hard drive to help illustrate. The two tone Old Nav is actually a 1990 vintage B13019 with the two tone "Old Nav/Cosmo" bracelet. You can see how the end link conform fits as opposed to the original 423A mounted on the white face flyback Cossie...


Image

Image

Image
Author:  johnc [ Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Old Navitimer II - correct bracelet?
Many thanks for the info. Do you know if the "Old Nav/ Cosmo" bracelet is still available, or if I would be trying to find one second-hand?
Author:  Roffensian [ Fri Feb 11, 2011 5:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Old Navitimer II - correct bracelet?
johnc wrote:
Many thanks for the info. Do you know if the "Old Nav/ Cosmo" bracelet is still available, or if I would be trying to find one second-hand?


That would definitely have to be resale.
Author:  bnewbie [ Fri Feb 11, 2011 11:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Old Navitimer II - correct bracelet?
Current Cossie's 440A should fit (same end links as 423A).
Author:  johnc [ Fri Feb 11, 2011 1:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Old Navitimer II - correct bracelet?
Thanks bnewbie. As the end links are the same, what is the difference between 440A and 423A ?
Author:  bnewbie [ Fri Feb 11, 2011 4:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Old Navitimer II - correct bracelet?
johnc wrote:
Thanks bnewbie.

You are welcome.
johnc wrote:
As the end links are the same, what is the difference between 440A and 423A ?

440A has raised and 423A has stamped logo on the safety clasp.
Author:  O2AFAC67 [ Fri Feb 11, 2011 10:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Old Navitimer II - correct bracelet?
bnewbie wrote:
johnc wrote:
Thanks bnewbie.

You are welcome.
johnc wrote:
As the end links are the same, what is the difference between 440A and 423A ?

440A has raised and 423A has stamped logo on the safety clasp.

423A is 22-18mm. I believe the 440A may well be 22-20mm. I don't have a current sales handbook to verify.
Best,
Ron
Author:  johnc [ Wed Feb 16, 2011 2:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Old Navitimer II - correct bracelet?
Funny old world - no sooner than you guys have told me what the correct bracelet is for my watch than one comes up on eBay. Steel & gold, so not what I'm looking for, but still. I'm surprised it didn't sell - I'd have thought 1,150 Euros would be interesting to somebody. Anyway, my retailer called today to say he has a 440A, so I'm going to exchange it for the 442A in a day or two. Happy, happy :)
Author:  challenger_fr [ Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Old Navitimer II - correct bracelet?
johnc wrote:
Hi there,
Stumbled across this board and hope one of the experts here can help.

I have an Old Navitimer II (A13022.1) bought around 1995. It has a leather strap and I would like to replace it with a s/s bracelet. I'm having trouble getting the correct bracelet. Here's what I *think* I know - but I'd appreciate any correction/ advice:
1. Correct s/s bracelet is 423A but this is no longer available

John


Hello John,

I got one 423A bracelet from my AD in France 2 weeks ago (last January 2011), so it's still available in France.
If you want one, perhaps I can manage with them to get one for you by 2 ways:
- in direct from you (here are their phone & fax, I can tell them that you are comming from me, No VAT for you in this case, less 19.6% in France for the final price :D )
- or by me with the AD and I will send it to you after (but you will have to pay the French VAT, sorry.
Price with VAT is about 1200 euros, so about 1626 USD.

The AD in France is: http://www.breitling.com/fr/index.php#/retailers/europe/
Bijouterie l'Etoile d'Or
28 rue du faubourg Montmartre
75009 Paris - France
Phone: +33 142 469 720
fax: + 33 147 702 044

Best regards,

Challenger_fr
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