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1967 Breitling Chronomat
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Author:  vintage [ Mon Aug 20, 2007 10:06 am ]
Post subject: 
Joseph wrote:
Paul - that top piece is magnificent!! And of course the Navitimer is classic. Do you have any history about the bottom watch?

Best,
Joe


The bottom watch dates to 1952 and probably has a Felsa movement. I boight it from a Hong Kong seller and it has some patina on the dial but is 100% original.

The top chronograph was a full blown restoration. The original dial was redone, the case restored and replated, and the original movement overhauled. It dates to 1953. Here's the before pic :-)

Paul

Image
Author:  Joseph [ Mon Aug 20, 2007 10:26 am ]
Post subject: 
That is an AMAZING restoration, Paul - first class! I normally don't suggest dial make overs but in this case, a re-dial was a must. It's just beautiful.

I'd like your opinion on the movement of my 1940s Chronomat. Here's a link:

http://s224.photobucket.com/albums/dd11 ... mvmnt1.jpg

Would you say that based on the photo, the movement is 100% genuine? It's an early unmarked Venus and it was typical in these early movements not to mark them. The only thing that makes me wonder a bit is the swan neck fine regulator, which was added to the mid to late 40s Chronomats, however I believe that this was added later since this movement is probably from the early 40s according to the serial number. Can you shed some light? Thanks!
Author:  vintage [ Mon Aug 20, 2007 4:32 pm ]
Post subject: 
Joseph wrote:
That is an AMAZING restoration, Paul - first class! I normally don't suggest dial make overs but in this case, a re-dial was a must. It's just beautiful.

I'd like your opinion on the movement of my 1940s Chronomat. Here's a link:

http://s224.photobucket.com/albums/dd11 ... mvmnt1.jpg

Would you say that based on the photo, the movement is 100% genuine? It's an early unmarked Venus and it was typical in these early movements not to mark them. The only thing that makes me wonder a bit is the swan neck fine regulator, which was added to the mid to late 40s Chronomats, however I believe that this was added later since this movement is probably from the early 40s according to the serial number. Can you shed some light? Thanks!


I'm not an expert on the movements. There are a couple of things that look a little different on your watch that I haven't seen before like the clip or spring on top of the balance cock. I usually stay away from movements from the mid forties on that don't have Breitling engraved on the bridge in some form and the later watches also have WOG. My 1967 Navitimer has both engraved bridge and WOG on the balance cock. I can't, with 100% certainty, say it's wrong without them though. I just haven't seen any written proof on the subject. I know the mid to early forties watches mostly don't have anything on the balance cock or bridge. I've attached a couple of pics of the Venus 150 movement so you can see the differences.

Paul

Image
Image
Author:  Joseph [ Tue Aug 21, 2007 8:29 am ]
Post subject: 
Thanks, Paul for the photos. I do see the differences.

http://forums.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=9103

That's a link to another forum that has a very interesting write up on Chronomats. The author does state that the very early Venus 175 movements, which is the movement in my watch, did not have any writing on the balance cock or the bridge. Your photos are of the later Venus 150 movement and therefore, by that time, the movements were marked and had a clip spring. Interesting comparison though. I think I should have mentioned that the movement in my Chronomat is the 175 and not the 150. Sorry I didn't do that. Thanks again!
Author:  vintage [ Tue Aug 21, 2007 9:51 am ]
Post subject: 
Joseph wrote:
Thanks, Paul for the photos. I do see the differences.

http://forums.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=9103

That's a link to another forum that has a very interesting write up on Chronomats. The author does state that the very early Venus 175 movements, which is the movement in my watch, did not have any writing on the balance cock or the bridge. Your photos are of the later Venus 150 movement and therefore, by that time, the movements were marked and had a clip spring. Interesting comparison though. I think I should have mentioned that the movement in my Chronomat is the 175 and not the 150. Sorry I didn't do that. Thanks again!


I was looking at the Watchuseek page before. It's got some good information. The 150 movement is about identical but a 13 ligne movement where the 175 is a 14 ligne movement. Just slightly bigger. If you look closely at the movement pics on the Watchuseek site you'll see that the first 175 movement pictured has the two movement retaining screws about equally placed on both sides of the inner case, like yours. After 1946 there is a difference where the one movement retaining screw is located, not in the middle of the inner case as before. My conclusion would be that your Chronomat, if it's a 1967 model, would have an earlier movement based upon just looking at the locations of the two movement retaining screws. You didn't show a pic of the back of the watch but I assume you translated the serial number to 1967? It's difficult to nail down differences in watch movements, even of the same type, because they're are often modified within the production runs so little changes can be seen.

Paul L
Author:  Joseph [ Tue Aug 21, 2007 10:31 am ]
Post subject: 
Hi Paul,

I think there may be some confusion between the two Chronomats. The movement that I posted is from my 1940's model. The '67 Chronomat (boxed) is perfect. My inquiry was on the earlier model. Sorry if I didn't clarify.

Joe
Author:  vintage [ Tue Aug 21, 2007 3:17 pm ]
Post subject: 
Joseph wrote:
Hi Paul,

I think there may be some confusion between the two Chronomats. The movement that I posted is from my 1940's model. The '67 Chronomat (boxed) is perfect. My inquiry was on the earlier model. Sorry if I didn't clarify.

Joe


:) Whoops, I missed that and thought we were talking about one watch. My mistake. Glad to see there isn't a problem then.

Paul L
Author:  Joseph [ Wed Aug 22, 2007 5:20 am ]
Post subject: 
No problem, Paul. Thanks for your reply. So, then you see the movement as being original to the period, even with the swan neck regulator? I thought that those regulators were on the mid to late 40's versions of the Venus 175. What I'm trying to find out is if the movement looks authentic to that particular Chronomat? Sorry if I'm being anal but I like to be sure that authenticity is the thing.

Joe
Author:  vintage [ Wed Aug 22, 2007 9:39 am ]
Post subject: 
Joseph wrote:
No problem, Paul. Thanks for your reply. So, then you see the movement as being original to the period, even with the swan neck regulator? I thought that those regulators were on the mid to late 40's versions of the Venus 175. What I'm trying to find out is if the movement looks authentic to that particular Chronomat? Sorry if I'm being anal but I like to be sure that authenticity is the thing.

Joe


I don't see anything I would be overly concerned about. The Watchuseek article is the only refernce I've seen to the swan-neck fine regulator and pictures it on the slightly later style movement. It doesn't indicate when they started to use that regulator design or whether it was regularly retrofitted to earlier examples when they came in for service. I wouldn't be concerned that your movement isn't the original.

Paul
Author:  Joseph [ Wed Aug 22, 2007 10:00 am ]
Post subject: 
Thanks Paul! That's good to hear! This was a substantial piece price-wise so I just want to make sure. My only chagrin is that I cannot get an exact date of production for the serial number 508607. I was told that it dates prior to 1944 since Breitling didn't begin documenting serial numbers until '44. My guess is that my Chronomat is one of the first produced. Production began on these pieces in 1942 or '43 so it's rather an historic Breitling I think.
Thanks again for your assistance!
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