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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:05 am 
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Between WatchFred, Dracha, Vintage and a few other members you guys really have me curious about vintage watches. Toptime, Long Playing, Premier and the like, all seem to fire me up - I really like them. I think Dracha's Unitime is the straw that broke my back. Time to investigate.

Problem is I have zero idea where to start. I've lurked and read a bit here in the vintage section, but I always come away with cold feet when I think about buying. Just too many unknowns. What are some key rules, or where can I find the Cliff Notes version on not making huge mistakes? Is it best to buy a vintage piece that has already been restored to start off? Can a noob successfully dig up a diamond in the rough and send it off for some work and not lose his shirt? Should I just turn and run the other way, as it seems like a great time waster and black hole for money if not cautious?

There has been a 7104.3 on ebay forever that I conclude is way over priced since it never sells, but being NOS gives me at least a warm fuzzy feeling. Beyond that I am at a total loss. I am petty handy and mechanical inclined, but not sue if this is the type of thing left best to experts with respect to cracking open a case and having a look around.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:09 am 
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NOS watches will still need a service - the oil is 30+ years old!

Only you know which watches appeal to you visually, and then make sure that you ask for advice here before committing to anything - as you know there are a lot of fakes around. You don't want to be messign around with them yourself, but our 'tame' restorer, chronodeco can make just about anything come back to life so no issues with buying a 'project'. You stand just as much chance as anyone else here of buying a nice piece - you just need to bid more than anyone else :lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:18 am 
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Pfew ! lot of questions, I will give you my view . I am sure others will chime in

First decide what you like and why you like it ! , that makes choosing a little easier as there's approx 100 years of watches to choose from !
mostof the pre-1940 pieces are rather small and even the post 1940 very collectable pieces like the datora's can seem small with their 36mm
They do wear bigger though

then I would try and look at the Vintage pieces together with their modern counterparts ie the Navi's , Chronomats , Datora's, AVI's etc and see if there's anything that appeals to you .. and then compare , ask questions . Dont be afraid to bother me as I like looking at them and see if they are genuine. You dont even have to post a link to protect your sources, some pictures will do

your best and first stop with any watch you find is right here , show the watch and ask opinions . That will certainly weed out the bad ones really quickly
personally I would stay away from 'restored' pieces unless they're soo rare that you dont have a choice, on most watches they will come along at an affordable price if you have patience ! .. the vintage game is built around the hunt and chase , and that can take years . And those years are best spent studying :D so at one point other collectors will say 'You have choosen wisely'

Its not always about prices either , believe it or not some of the rarest pieces I just bought last month for prices that I was told 'have come and gone 10 years ago' so there's absolutely still diamonds in the rough (send me a PM and i'll share some of my purchases with you)

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Last edited by Dracha on Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:19 am 
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LOL 'tame restorer' lets hope he can appreciate that

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:20 am 
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The risk of buying a fake is negligable as long as you post a link or pictures here, we will be glad to help.

Servicing requirements are similar to modern watches, servicing costs will pleasantly surprise you, for some watches getting spare parts can be tricky, but most are ok, again we will be happy to help.

As Roff has said we have our resident watchmaker genius on this forum, a huge advantage, Craig is not only a gifted watch restorer, he is a great guy.

So look around, find out what you really like, wearing vintage watches is not riskier than wearing modern ones as long as you are careful around water

Another point - you might not make money as some will lead you to believe, but chances are the watches you enjoy will at least keep their value.

Welcome to the world of vintage watches, your main risk will be that this hobby is highly addictive !



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:26 am 
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Yea, I realize the NOS will need service, but figure at the very least stand a good chance of it being real and intact. I have seen some of chronodeco's work and the results are very impressive. I've kept an eye on lots of vintage Breitlings on ebay...but all over the map, so not sure if that is helping or just adding more mud to my water. I've got two early 70s pinball machines. Seem like a need a watch to match don't ya think?

So is this the short version of the plan?
-Like it
-vet it here
-bid lots
-send it to chronodeco

Seems simple enough, what sort of ball park budget should I plan for say a Toptime? Seems to be a few of them around all the time. Is this one on ebay a candidate? I reallllllllyyyyyy like the looks of it!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/120864720429?ss ... 1438.l2649

Last week there was a 70s Zenith for sale here at BSource. 250 pound, so guess $500-ish USD. Gone in a day or two. I liked that a lot, is that in the rhelm of posability to find weekly, monthy, once in a blue moon?

EDIT: Forgot to mention, thanks for the warm welcome in this neck of the woods. I'll try and not be too much of a PITA.


Last edited by rplace on Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:31 am 
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That Top Time looks OK to me. Don't wear a watch when working on the pinballs though - mine are 1990s and up so a few more bits going on under the playfield, but there is something about pinball machines that reaches out and scratches any watch!

You'll pay more for chronos than simple 3 hand models, but there are certainly chronos available for sub $1,000 if you are patient.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:39 am 
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Everyone here has given great tips. A few from the top of my head and based on first steps into collecting.

Size matters - As Dracha said older watches tend to be smaller and wear smaller. As a rule of thumb, black dial watches feel smaller on the wrist than white dials. I would say check carefully the size of the watch without the crown and try on a watch about that size to see if it's comfortbale and has the wrist presence you want. I have lots of watches around 36mm, but most people fine 38 to 42mm the sweet spot. A navitimer is 40mm without the crown and so is a vintage speedmaster.

Steel or gold - not plated. A good restorer can work miracles with solid steel or solid gold cases. Plated is very hard to restore.

Sixties onwards - for yout first steps I would suggest something from the Sixties or Seventies. They can usually be serviced easily and parts aren't always a nightmare to find. Also size is often more contemporary feeling.

Service costs - a cheap chronograph can cost as much to service as an expensive chronograph.

Condition, condition, condition - buy the best condition you can for your first watch, getting into restoration can get you a bargain, but can also be a money pit, especially from ebay! Paying a couple of hundred bucks more from a dealer for somehting in great condition won't matter so much if you keep the watch for severall years.

Go to some vintage watch dealers/shows and try a few things on first, get a sense of what your drawn to. If you buy carefully and in nice condition you can always get out of it in a few years if your taste changes or develops.

Buy some books - there are some nice reference books out there. If you're going to drop a thousand bucks on a watch, what's seventy bucks or less on a good ref book (a lot are now beocming available on Ipad as well much cheaper)

Hope some of this helps.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:44 am 
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I bought a nice Panda TT using 'buy now' recently and it was no where near the 'usual' $1800 asking prices, good prices can still found
Mind you, the crown and stem are no longer original but thats easily fixed during the next service and that was disclosed in the auction, so while everyone was submitting their 'best offers' I just clicked the 'buy now' button

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:07 pm 
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Ohhhh, me like that panda. How about this one, it really looks great to me. No pix of movement. Assuming it is all there what would a watch like this go for (ball park) being fair for both seller and buyer and what would it take to get it to the point that you could pick it any day and strap it on. I am not thinking purest where it has to be 100% period correct down the the crow and strap, but don't want junk on my wrist either. Is there a general assumption on work; like you should always assume $XXX dollars just to get it up and running with no issues or it that sort of a crap shoot once it is in you posession?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Breitling-Top-T ... 2a1a4ae118


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:19 pm 
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Some watches with some movements are more desirable than others
the 810 and 815 look the same but the 810 typically has a more desirable venus 178 movement
I believe the Ref 815 has (or should have?) a valjoux 7736 movement that are somewhat less collectable so price should be adjusted accordingly

now the price .. I think these can run from anywhere between $800 to $1800 ?

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:27 pm 
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815 Long Playing has the Valjoux 7736, considered less desirable than the Venus 178, but a very reliable, excellent movement, ample spare parts supply. You should be able to get a good GP 815 well below 1,000, SS might go a little higher. Most will work fine, though you should consider having it serviced, price of that would be about half of what you would pay for a current Breitling, just to give yiu a ballpark figure.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:39 pm 
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3-day returns and lot of positive feedback seems like it should be legit, but being that he is a 'pro' watch seller and there is a reserve probably no bargain to be had. Most likely he knows the value of it much more then I do. Still I really like the white face, contrasting sub dials and overall look. Totally dig the sharp angles on the profile. Are most vintage people in it for the long haul? I see lots of flippers for new watches on time zone and the like...here as well. Seems like there are plenty of people buying and selling short term. Maybe I just have not been watcing the vintage stuff as much, but I don't recall seeing many bought, fixed up, worn a handful of times then sold to get the next "grail" vintage piece.

Even on the high end of $1,800 and sevearl 100 for work/parts it seems like a bargain next to the white faced black sub dial Transocean currently tipping the scales at $8,000+ at many a Breitling ADs around the country.

Roff, the wife jokingly said this past weekend, sell a pinball machine and you can get another watch...I just might have to do that. I have a 72 Space time (near and dear to me) nothing special and a 71 Four Million BC in almost perfect shape. What you got?

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:17 pm 
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rplace wrote:
3-day returns and lot of positive feedback seems like it should be legit, but being that he is a 'pro' watch seller and there is a reserve probably no bargain to be had. Most likely he knows the value of it much more then I do. Still I really like the white face, contrasting sub dials and overall look. Totally dig the sharp angles on the profile. Are most vintage people in it for the long haul? I see lots of flippers for new watches on time zone and the like...here as well. Seems like there are plenty of people buying and selling short term. Maybe I just have not been watcing the vintage stuff as much, but I don't recall seeing many bought, fixed up, worn a handful of times then sold to get the next "grail" vintage piece.

Even on the high end of $1,800 and sevearl 100 for work/parts it seems like a bargain next to the white faced black sub dial Transocean currently tipping the scales at $8,000+ at many a Breitling ADs around the country.

Roff, the wife jokingly said this past weekend, sell a pinball machine and you can get another watch...I just might have to do that. I have a 72 Space time (near and dear to me) nothing special and a 71 Four Million BC in almost perfect shape. What you got?

Image

Image



Like that a lot, and condition looks good.

Right now I have a Maverick, Baywatch (quit sniggering it's a great player) and Simpsons Pinball Party. Considering picking up the new Jersey Jack machine (first non Stern machine in years) - http://www.pinballsales.com/shop/pc/vie ... category=2


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 6:34 am 
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Thanks again guys for all the great info. Yaffle, what you say about plated makes sense...good tip. WatchFred, why would stainless go for a bit more? Are you saying over plated or solid gold as well? I'd guess gold would be more rare and since it costs more it would command more used. Is it related to being able to polish/restore?

I am really zeroing in on the three sub-dial Top Time. Really liking the look, probably because I liket he current Transocean Chrono so much. At least for the moment movement does not factor in for me so much...maybe if I get more into vintage perhaps I'd feel differently. So what years were the 810 and 815 made? Any particular combination of movement, dial, year, case material, etc. to seek out or avoid like the plague? While high in price this seems like it is in fantastic condition. How hard to get the proper movement, or is this the type of project that is best left for once I have a few under my belt? http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-60S-BREITL ... 3638383293

Roff, any pin is a good pin, no judgement here for the Baywatch. My Space Time came from Canada, I met the guy in Detroit (traveling from Maryland) to buy it while he was traveling to Chicago for pin convention. Seems like a lot of love for pinball up north. Wonder if it is the cold months or the fact that beer and pinball go together like peas and carrots?


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