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Breitling/Landeron The Missing Link?
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Author:  vintage [ Tue Sep 20, 2011 8:27 am ]
Post subject:  Breitling/Landeron The Missing Link?
Ok, I picked up this WELL worn Breitling chrono off ebay back in May. I bought it off someone that got it from an estate sale so not something you would initially think came from a suspicious orgin. It came without a crystal and the hands were bent and when I removed the back I find a Landeron movement so I'm thinking, this isn't right. I sent the watch off and discovered it was actually a 3-button chrono with a Landeron movement variation not seen before (probably an earl Landeron 47 variant). I was still stuck on the Landeron movement being strange for the watch. Today I find another one for sale online which is almost identical to the one I have in it's original configuration. Very close in the serial number sequence (Landeron applied for the 3-button patent in 1940), same hands, same case, movement looks the same, and the font for the 'Breitling' on the dial seems the same. What are the chances these two are the missing Breitling/Landeron's we've never been sure of that even exist? The first four pics are of mine and the last three of the other.

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Author:  Roffensian [ Tue Sep 20, 2011 8:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Breitling/Landeron The Missing Link?
Hmmm.

My initial reaction is that I would love to know what was removed from both casebacks above the Swiss.

The Landeron links refuse to die and while the majority of them can be put down to frankenwatches there are some that are harder to explain - the papers that we say last year and these watches being among them.

There's nothing obviously wrong about either of these pieces (although that caseback bugs me) and if it hadn't been a Landeron we wouldn't question them. I'm tempted to think that these may well be genuine pieces from a period when documentation is even worse than typical with Breitlings.
Author:  Bill in Sacramento [ Tue Sep 20, 2011 8:12 pm ]
Post subject:  What fun.
With all due respects, I was not persuaded by either of them.

However, with regard to the one you picked up in May, doubting it would require one to accept that someone is painting script "Breitling" on an otherwise aged original dial. I currently believe that is being done, and probably in central/eastern Europe. Paul has had the dial in hand, so he is the best judge of that.

The second example is not persuasive at all. Besides the Duographs, I don't believe Breitling ever sold a three button chrono, having innovated the two-button chrono before that.

That marking removed from the inside caseback is very telling and a real clanger. Both appear to have passed through the same workshop.

As to Landerons in Breitlings, I don't have a problem with that if the markings are correct. Neither of these movements show any Breitling markings.

I may change my mind tomorrow.
Author:  Roffensian [ Wed Sep 21, 2011 4:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What fun.
Bill in Sacramento wrote:
Neither of these movements show any Breitling markings.



This is the fundamental problem. With these early pieces if we saw movement markings we would be suspicious - unmarked movements in apparently 30s pieces is expected. Of course that makes it very easy to assemble pieces as well so I think that we really need period paperwork to develop anything close to 'definitive'.
Author:  vintage [ Wed Sep 21, 2011 4:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Breitling/Landeron The Missing Link?
There are too many unknowns to say Breitling never built one of these. Perhaps Breitling purchased a number of 3-button chrono's from Landeron because they didn't have any to offer. This seems to have also been the case with the other Landeron movements Breitling used during the 1940's, low production and unusual models. The milling on the back cover could be to remove another companies identifier and the 3-button case is unique. Breitling movements, more often than not, appear not to be marked prior to early 1940 so that really isn't a player in my book. The fact that these two watches came from two different locations half way around the world wouldn't seem to indicate a malicious modification by one individual. If they were ever together it was probably in Switzerland when they were originally assembled. There is absolutely no way the 'Breitling' on my dial was a later addition. This picture Craig took while he was servicing the watch and he agreed the Breitling script was original. Looking through a loupe you can see the script has aged like the dial. I'm going to see if I can get any additional information from the owner of the other watch.

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Author:  vintage [ Thu Apr 19, 2012 9:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Breitling/Landeron The Missing Link?
Well today I've finally found someone that I think might be able do redo the original Breitling dial satisfactorily. I found a company in Barcelona, Spain, DANAFI S.L., that appears to do outstanding work on dial restoration so will be sending the dial to them for a redo. Not cheap either but I'd like the watch to look as presentable as possible. This dial has the early copper/brass ring inlaid inside the index scale which DANAFI said they could restore also. Gonna give it a try.

I think someone on the forum bought the other 3-button I mentioned above but I've lost his contact information.
Author:  WatchFred [ Fri Apr 20, 2012 6:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Breitling/Landeron The Missing Link?
Sounds interesting, Paul ! Have you seen Breitling dials they have restored ?

Edit: disregard, a little googling shows some nice results ....
Author:  vintage [ Fri Apr 20, 2012 6:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Breitling/Landeron The Missing Link?
http://watchrepairandrestoration.blogspot.com.es/2009/03/breitling-navitimer-black-watch-dial.html

Obviously you can see the dial is a redo but the accuracy of the fonts/stencils used is amazing. Got a feeling I might need to have the case replated to match the newness of the dial once it's done. :roll:
Author:  Roffensian [ Fri Apr 20, 2012 7:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Breitling/Landeron The Missing Link?
That really is very impressive work!
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