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Can a seller get scammed accepting payment by PayPal?
https://breitlingsource.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=54478		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Justin Stacks [ Sun Jun 29, 2014 4:38 am ]
Post subject:  Can a seller get scammed accepting payment by PayPal?
I've heard (read) that it's possible to get scammed as a seller by accepting payment via PayPal.

Seller accepts payment by PayPal, sends the watch to buyer, buyer files a dispute with PayPal claiming the watch is fake or not as described, etc., PayPal holds the funds form the seller, and buyer sends watch back to seller, but has switched out real and genuine watch for a fake one and seller is screwed.

How common is this scam, and is there anything the seller can do to protect themselves.

If this is a common scam and if this is one of the main reasons sellers do not accept PayPal, then why is it always (or usually) accepted when selling on eBay?
Author:  ffeelliixx [ Sun Jun 29, 2014 6:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Can a seller get scammed accepting payment by PayPal?
I've never heard of that scam, but I guess anything is possible. I doubt that most scanners have the funds to pull this off. And if successful, they have a watch with a serial number you could report as stolen.

To protect yourself, I suppose you could wait for funds to clear before you ship - something you should do anyway. Soon as funds clear, remove the money from your account. Then ship the watch.
Author:  dinobaggio [ Sun Jun 29, 2014 7:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Can a seller get scammed accepting payment by PayPal?
Justin the scam exists see

http://www.breitlingsource.com/phpBB2/v ... =9&t=53614

The other scam is the buyer asks you to send watch to another address not on the eBay acvount- as its "present for brother, they are travelling, or to his watch mender etc " you send it, they tell PayPal they didn't get it, you send the tracking info, it's not the eBay buyers address- PayPal therefore settle in buyers favour.
Author:  mfserge [ Sun Jun 29, 2014 7:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Can a seller get scammed accepting payment by PayPal?
Sellers can get scammed by accepting paypal just as described above, the scam happens quite often unfortunately. I only accept paypal from people that have numerous references otherwise, it's wire payment only for high price transactions.
Author:  natesen [ Sun Jun 29, 2014 8:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Can a seller get scammed accepting payment by PayPal?
Paypal typically sides with the buyer so I don't accept paypal either. Paypal offers lots of buyer protection, very little seller protection.
Author:  MattC [ Sun Jun 29, 2014 10:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Can a seller get scammed accepting payment by PayPal?
You just have to make sure to wait for the funds to clear before shipping. Save the conversation with the buyer and ship to a confirmed address. If that should happen as long as you have covered all the bases Paypal will back you. Can't go by "stories" because they all have different circumstances.
Author:  mfserge [ Sun Jun 29, 2014 11:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Can a seller get scammed accepting payment by PayPal?
MattC wrote:
You just have to make sure to wait for the funds to clear before shipping..


Wrong! PayPal can still charge/place a hold your bank account or credit card on file if the buyer files a claim and paypal rules in their favor, even after the funds have cleared. Everyone thinks they're safe after the funds have cleared and have been withdrawn, that is not true.
Author:  P51 [ Sun Jun 29, 2014 2:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Can a seller get scammed accepting payment by PayPal?
It's getting so that you need an agreed third entity at each end to certify that the real thing was sent. An honest broker web. There's an interesting growth business for an enterprising person.
Author:  Novacastrian [ Sun Jun 29, 2014 3:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Can a seller get scammed accepting payment by PayPal?
I have myself filmed while packing the watch at the post office. I zoom in on the serial number, show that it matches the COSC certificate, box the watch and hand it over, all in one take. Then i upload the video to Youtube.
Author:  mfserge [ Sun Jun 29, 2014 4:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Can a seller get scammed accepting payment by PayPal?
P51: another forum member and I came up with that business idea a few years ago, I think we were going to call it Watch Safe or something to that effect. We discussed it in detail however, the time investment and liabilities were too great to be a successful business venture for us.

Novacastrian wrote:
I have myself filmed while packing the watch at the post office. I zoom in on the serial number, show that it matches the COSC certificate, box the watch and hand it over, all in one take. Then i upload the video to Youtube.


Is it possible, beyond a reasonable doubt, that after the handover the watch was switched out by either yourself or a postal employee? While your idea is good, you are drawing a lot of attention to the package with your filming of the package. I believe that is forbidden is US Postal Offices anyway, not 100% sure on that. The closest thing to foolproof is to accept wire, wait for the wire to clear, then ship fully insured.
Author:  P51 [ Sun Jun 29, 2014 6:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Can a seller get scammed accepting payment by PayPal?
mfserge wrote:
P51: another forum member and I came up with that business idea a few years ago, I think we were going to call it Watch Safe or something to that effect. We discussed it in detail however, the time investment and liabilities were too great to be a successful business venture for us.


Yeah, absolutely. I agree with you totally. This would be an expensive & difficult thing to organise & would rely on incorruptible honest brokers at each end. There is scope for abuse in this as well, so it will not be foolproof. What you need is someone or something videoing each end as the package is handed over. All difficult.

That's the world we live in though, a few bad eggs ruin it for everyone else.

When all else fails, E plurius unum!
Author:  jnelson3097 [ Sun Jun 29, 2014 7:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Can a seller get scammed accepting payment by PayPal?
I sold a watch to a member on here and he paid with paypal. His address was verified through paypal and being a verified seller, I was given the OK by paypal to send the watch. The payment arrived quickly and there were several emails back and forth with the buyer. Fast forward two months later and I wake up to find an email from paypal saying that my account had a neative $4000 balance since the buyer said it was a fraudulent charge and that the watch was never sent. The UPS website showed it was signed for by someone with his name and I provided a copy of the shipping label. Since I am a verified seller and paypal verified the buyer's address, I was covered under their seller's protection. Even though it ended with a happy note for me, it was still a huge headache. It also made me accept the 3% paypal fees a little better since it helped cover me.
Author:  MattC [ Sun Jun 29, 2014 7:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Can a seller get scammed accepting payment by PayPal?
Right, that's why the fee is there.
Author:  Novacastrian [ Sun Jun 29, 2014 7:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Can a seller get scammed accepting payment by PayPal?
Novacastrian wrote:
I have myself filmed while packing the watch at the post office. I zoom in on the serial number, show that it matches the COSC certificate, box the watch and hand it over, all in one take. Then i upload the video to Youtube.


mfserge wrote:
Is it possible, beyond a reasonable doubt, that after the handover the watch was switched out by either yourself or a postal employee? While your idea is good, you are drawing a lot of attention to the package with your filming of the package. I believe that is forbidden is US Postal Offices anyway, not 100% sure on that. The closest thing to foolproof is to accept wire, wait for the wire to clear, then ship fully insured.


The Australia Post employees have always been fine with filming: one even acted as my camera man once! My method was put to the test on one occasion. An Airwolf of mine was bought with stolen credit card details. Paypal obviously wanted to know if i was part of the scam. They accepted the film as proof beyond a reasonable doubt. I pointed them to the Youtube clip and they were immediately satisfied that the watch was genuine and that the correct watch had been sent. So my method's only been tested in dispute once but seems to have been a clincher with PP. Given the choice I'd still much rather have cash in hand or put directly into my account, but i can understand why buyers are wary too.
Author:  vintage [ Mon Jun 30, 2014 4:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Can a seller get scammed accepting payment by PayPal?
My philosophy is that any internet transaction has an element of risk involved whether it's through the postal system or method of payment. If you're not ready to accept that, and the loss of an expensive watch is going to cause you extreme distress either financially or emotionally, then perhaps buying in person is the way to go. I'm more comfortable with Ebay transactions and PayPal than I am with wire transfers. Early on in my watch collecting I had a guy in New Hampshire that scammed me out of $500 for a Breitling Chronospace. I contacted his local PD and had him making license plates for two years. I even got occasional $25 checks from his prison account for retribution. :lol:
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