The Breitling Watch Source Forums

We've had a few discussions here around music and portable music systems in the past, but not much about home music systems. I'm looking at upgrading my home setup this year and wondering if anyone has any recommendations for home theatre / home music setups.

I'm looking predominantly for speaker recommendations, as that will drive the amplifier, but if anyone has solid processor recommendations I'll take those too. I'm definitely looking at audiophile type setups (my portable get up is an 8 speaker per ear one so I'm not interested in regular commercial stuff), currently considering speaker brands like VSA, Aperion, Paradigm, Salk, SVS, Ascend, Axiom, etc.

I know that it's a long shot, but I also know that we have some music people here and the audiophile forums are just full of fan boys who think that anything other than the brand that they bought is useless. I'll likely have to take a chance and order some to demo in my home, but hoping to narrow the list down first!

My parents have a 5.1 set up with an older Pioneer receiver and Paradigm speakers, though I'm not sure which model. It sounds great. I run a Denon avr1612 receiver and Klipsch Reference series speakers and I get great sound. But my receiver lacks in power and I find the dialogue in Dolby 5.1 to be muddy, I have to turn my gain up on my center channel after I run Audessey. I want to get a new receiver one if these days, possibly a Marantz or NAD.

You'll get much better sound by upgrading the speakers before you upgrade the receiver, speakers that are more efficient will make the receiver work less - throwing more power at inefficient speakers is never going to be as effective. Additionally, trying to go to a lot of power in a relatively mass market all in one receiver is going to be way too much compromise, a separates system will be much more effective (assuming that your speakers can display the quality which those Klipsch can't).

I have a fairly small room so I do not really need anything much crazier then what I have, I just think with more power I can get a cleaner sound at lower volumes. My speakers sound great to me, but are no way up to par with some audiophiles standards.

We're a long way away from audiophile setups that I asked about, but throwing more power at your speakers won't help much. Before you spend money on a receiver that is going to be unable to do what it was built for because of the speakers that it is using, at least arrange to demo it with your speakers so you know what sound you will be getting.

Thanks for the info Roff, I'm really not an audiophile by any means. I went with the Klpisch because I've heard them in a couple different setups and liked the sound. I guess I really didn't have any info to give on the topic, but it will be interesting to read about other high end set ups.

Your timing is good Roff. I'm starting to think about this very thing given that we've just moved states and will be buying a new house over the next few months. Have you considered wireless? I just got my first Sonos speaker and am mostly happy with it. The quality and price point of the speaker are good IMO, and the sub woofer will enhance that experience once I get around to purchasing it; my issues arise sometimes with the quality of wireless. Although we utilize an appropriate wireless signal, sometimes the speaker does drop out or not work at all which annoys me no end. I'm still going to use Sonos but would like to install in-built speakers in my house hence my continuing research. A friend has installed Sonos throughout his whole house and is very happy.

_________________
Happines is Good Health and a Bad Memory.
"Ingrid Bergman"

I've got a Sonos system and it's fine for background listening - the quality is pretty good for the price point and speaker technology. However I wouldn't want to use it for reference listening and can't see myself using it for a 5.1 or 7.1 (or 7.2) system - it would end up putting the speakers as the limiting factor in the system. Sonos speakers can't stand up to speakers built with proper crossovers, acoustic cabinets, etc.

I also think that wireless would be too much of a compromise because the quality just isn't there yet, and it's still a bit of a con because 'wireless' speakers still need power and power cables are harder to hide than speaker cables.

I have never actually heard the Salks, but I did have a video and audio calibrator at my home a couple of years ago who absolutely raved about the speakers. I have owned Aperion tower speakers for about 7 years and I have been very happy with them. The Aperion systems have been getting great reviews from various home/audio magazines. The people at Aperion are great to deal with should you have any problems.
I would be careful in over paying for "separates", because I truely believe that technology has come so far that you can get a great receiver that will really do everything you will want and need. I know some true audiophile experts will disagree and I get where they are coming from, but their audio equipment is to them as watches are to us.
For what its worth, I have Aperion towers, Denon receiver, Epik subwoofer, Def Tech(center and rears) and Pioneer Elite plasma for my audio visual set-up. Best of luck and enjoy the search.

Thanks, that's helpful.

The Verus Towers do seem to have good reviews, I haven't heard the Salks either, but the reviews seem almost 'too' good if you see what I mean. Same could be said for the VSA VR22s. What made you not match mains, centre and rears - conscious choice or just different timing?

I hear the logic on the receiver vs. separates, I guess that I'm just a snob (or want to justify a couple of Rotel boxes )

Agreed, very helpful - thanks!


Good points. Do you have the Sonos subwoofer? If so, do you think it's worth acquiring it?

_________________
Happines is Good Health and a Bad Memory.
"Ingrid Bergman"

Didn't buy the sub because I knew that I wouldn't be satisfied. Too many subs (including Sonos) are designed just to be 'shakers' because that's what people think that they should do. A properly configured sub is an integral part of a system that complements the other elements and you (or at least I) can't be satisfied with a sub that can't handle that.

I really like vintage Klipsch speakers and tube amps...new tube amps not vintage. That said B&W speakers have always been a favorite too. Klipsch are so efficient it really opens up a lot of options for low power amps. However horn tweeters and midrange is not for everyone. I know you are looking to nail down the speakers first but give NOS valves a look when you get to the amp side of things. One man operation that specializes in fixing vintage amps (much like Craig at Chronodeco), but he does make his VRD amp to order. I got him to make me a pair in custom wood. He will do just about anything to them you are willing to pay for. Five individual monoblock amps would be a bit overkill for HT but two of them for 2-channel music is sublime. The NOS Valves guy's name is Craig also. http://www.nosvalves.com/vrd.htm

I personally am a fan of having my 2-channel music HT separate. IMO there is a compromise trying to use one for the other. Music and Movies simply are not the same animal. I run all solid state gear on the HT side and tube pre and amps for 2-channel music (same main speakers). Not a fan of multi channel music. For processors I have had a few incarnations of what ever Bob Carver was involved in at the time. Carver in the past and Sunfire currently. I think Bob got out of the Sunfire business a few years back...not sure what he/sunfire is up to now. At any rate I looked at a lot of options back in 2003/4 when I built my dedicated room and kept coming back to Sunfire surround processors.

I have not personally heard any but Zu Audio speakers seem to be well received. I have a phono cartridge by them and very happy with the product and service.

Are you thinking a screen and projector for the display or a TV? Panasonic is always solid in either.

EDIT: Don't limit yourself by even thinking about a receiver. Processors/formats changes daily it seems...almost hourly. Good amplifiers will future proof you. Just get a new processor every few years and invest in good quality amps. Processors have a very low resale value as well which is the same for receivers for the most part I have found. I figure the processor is almost disposable. Some of my amps I have had for over 20 years. Separates are the way to go IMHO.

That's more like it

I'm with you on splitting the music and HT and with the same speakers that's a fairly easy thing to accomplish. I wouldn't go valve on the HT side which is inherently digital anyway, but those VRDs look like a good deal on the music side, just want to make sure that I match with the speakers which have to be the core of the system because they should be the most future proof (at least on the HT side).

I looked at B&W CM9s but can't help thinking that I am paying for the case rather than the technology, and while the case is an important part of the whole, the finishing is secondary to me. I also can't get a RAAL ribbon tweeter in the B&Ws and no matter how good they make the speaker / crossover, that means a 'lesser' component. No idea what I am going to do on the preamp / processor side yet but not overly concerned about that.

Video will have to be a TV because of the space, waiting on pricing of the new Sony XBR 65X950B announced at CES and supposedly available in the spring.

For HT matching the front three speakers AND power is king. I'd guess this is part of MattC's problem. I had three custom crossovers made for my front three speakers. They have different taps so you can tune them based on your room/preference...that is a big help. If I am really doing serious listening I'll change the Right/Left for music to different settings from using all three (Left/Center/Right) for movies. I personally think the center channel speaker is the most important speaker in a HT. If space is an issue I think you will do just fine with 5.1. I run 7.1 but that is mostly because I am a gear freak. I have 4 matching 2-channel amps that give me the needed 8 channels for my 7 speakers. I don't care at all that that one channel does not get used.

Seriously give Zu a look. Pretty sure they have 30-day in home trial as well. What is $16K for a set of speakers? you can't even listen to those watches. I'd love to hear your take on them.

Agree on the B&W you are paying a lot for audio furniture. Still they sound great every time I have heard them. A friend of mine has a dedicated room all solid state and the B&Ws serve him well for his needs.

I have not been a big Sony fan, but that is just me. Panasonic and Samsung make great TVs. I'm sure Sony does too. Their XBR line has always been well thought of. If light control in your room is not an issue I'd give Plasma a hard look over LED. All the problems of Plasma 10 years ago has long since been worked out as far as I am concerned. Maybe I am too old school but for me a real cinema experience has to be projector and screen.