The Breitling Watch Source Forums

My wife and I are contemplating moving to the London in the next few years for my work. A lot of of decisions need to be made and alot of paperwork must be filled out before this even happens. Plus an opening in my company has to occur as well . However I was wondering if any U.S. residents took the plunge and moved? I have never been there before and either has my wife so we are planning a trip in June 2014 (10 months) to go for 10 days or so and experience the city to see if we even want to move. But I think this point in our lives (I am 29 and she is 24 plus we have no kids at this point) it would be a great chance to experience something different, take a risk, and enjoy another country for a bit. I am wondering if anyone has any advice on how to make this possible transition easier? We have a list of questions going but I am sure there are more to be had. I was wondering what your experiences were? What should I expect to do, have done, etc... To many questions I have to list here. Just looking for some advice what to avoid, what should I do beforehand, leading up to. etc...

thank you in advance and any advice or feedback is greatly appreciated.

Jason

_________________
White Dial Super Avenger with Batons
Grey Dial Breitling Bentley 6.75

Past:
Black Dial Super Avenger with Numerals
Countless "high priced" cheapos

Start saving!

I did the move the other way - UK to Canada in the 90s and as a general rule:

- Don't look purely at money, look at buying power - with an expected salary how much of my money will go to mortgage / rent, groceries, etc, etc. It's going to be a shock going to England, although remember that prices are quoted tax in. There are plenty of websites that can help with that.
- Be prepared to replace virtually all of your electrical devices - 220v vs. 110v.
- Other than personal items plan on selling everything and buying new - shipping costs are by volume and will be expensive, plus you will be without items for about 4 - 6 weeks anyway because of the time it takes to ship.
- Experience as much of the country before committing. Tourist London is one thing, but look at where you will be able to live, transport links, etc. Get used to the idea of driving on narrow roads, and get used to the idea of a different climate - less snow than you get in PA, but more rain and cooler summers.
- Try and do as much as possible ahead of time through your employer as you are talking about a job transfer. As a new resident there are hassles around things like phones / electric / etc - they may want large deposits and you may not even be able to get some things until you get a bank account and social security number.
- Understand the restrictions - how long can you drive before getting a UK license, how long before you can borrow money, etc.

Roff-

Thanks for the insight. I appreciate the quick feedback. I have heard about the issues with the bank accounts and a lot of those points are on my question list to get answered. When you moved to Canada how did you get any of your questions answered? By locals, your company, Embassy? I am just at a loss for information. I know I can google a bunch of these questions but not to sure I trust the answers on some of these pages. I have found a lot of blogs from people who have done this. So as of now that is where most of my info is coming from. What about your bank accounts back in the UK did you find that it was easier to keep one open for a bit for bills that still didn't hit, which I plan on doing? I have read about what US states do to people once they leave. They basically try to claim you as a "ghost resident" so that you are responsible for paying taxes even though you don't live there. Involving a bunch of other details that I might honestly get a tax lawyer or accountant to handle for me.

Did you ship your clothes at all or just purchase extra suitcases and load them up? It makes sense with electronics that nothing will work there as it does here. Electronics are very expensive over there from what I have read. I know everything is more expensive, but we know that is just part of life over there. With cost of living there I know we would want to move to the suburbs as we have a dog and I dont want to pay $4500/month for a 900 sq ft apt just to be in the middle of London. Are there any areas let's say within a 30 min commute around London that you would recommend to go see? Really looking for a larger house and some land. We are willing to pay for that but I would also like to avoid being house poor. As I imagine though for probably the first 6 months to a year we probably will be anyway with all of the extra expenses that would pile up from moving to another country.

I would like for my company to handle most of the Visa issues. Which I haven't even started on yet. Still very very very preliminary at this point. My concern with the visas is my wife. From what I gathered from the U.K. Home office website they have gotten rid of the general visa and they basically hand them out via a point system. So with here there might be some more hoops to jump thru in order to get her to be able to work. She is a Physician Asst here and only recently did the U.K. recognize the profession. I want to make sure she will be able to work there a while after we get there. Like I said a lot of questions to be answered, luckily we have time before or if I get the ball rolling on my end.

_________________
White Dial Super Avenger with Batons
Grey Dial Breitling Bentley 6.75

Past:
Black Dial Super Avenger with Numerals
Countless "high priced" cheapos

The words "large house with land" and "30 minute commute around London" do not go together. 30 minutes outside of central London is likely still London, just the built up suburbs. Look on the web at property in the counties around London and you'll get some idea - I grew up in Kent but most will be similar that close to London - also bear in mind that just like in the US there are some towns / areas that are more attractive than others.

We kept one UK bank account for a while for incidentals, but closed most things out straight away because the money was coming to Canada. We shipped clothes and personal items that we didn't need straight away because it was easier - especially as we didn't know exactly where we were going to live. We did multiple trips back and forth and spent a lot of time doing research - looking at prices in stores, property prices, looking at job boards, etc. It wasn't too hard with the Internet back in the mid 90s, and a lot easier now with all kinds of online retailers, online quotes for insurance, etc. There are also a lot of online communities with a lot of information. Can't comment on the visa / qualification issues because obviously mine was on the Canadian side.

Jason,

I can not give you advice about the specifics of relocating from US to UK and I'm sure there will be many headaches associated with it.
What I can however say is that moving around the world a bit can be a very rewarding experience and that is very much related to how you look at things. A positive mindset goes a very long way in overcoming most obstacles.
I have been an expat or a migrant or as I call it a "gypsy" for the most part of my life and I can honestly say that I would not want it any other way.
Going on a holiday somewhere for a few days is typically fine to experience different countries, meet different people, explore different cultures, etc...
Nevertheless, in a few days we are just scratching under the surface. The only way to get a real appreciation for what the different places on this small planet have to offer is to live there for a while.
I was born in Europe, moved with my parents to Australia as a teenager where I graduated and started my professional career. I came to Asia for a six week assignment in the second half of the 90's and have since been bouncing around between Hong Kong, Taiwan and Mainland China since.
Life is a journey and what a great journey it has been so far.
I would not be anywhere near where I am today if I did not take this journey and here I'm not simply talking about money but rather life experience.

All the best mate!

_________________
"It is just a matter of time!"

this forum needs a "like" button. well said, Wes

I couldn't have said it better myself really, I appreciate that. This is exactly why we want to make the move out of the U.S. We want to experience different things, different places, and take a leap of faith. We have been thinking about moving to Europe for about a year or so at this point. Our recent trip to Italy, Malta, Greece, and Turkey just solidified that we should not only do it but we should do it in the near future. I am lucky to work in a field and with a company that basically any country, continent, or state I could potentially have a job and move there. Not only do I think it will advance my career quicker. But the opportunity to experience such a different culture, way of life, and style of living is second to none. Especially the fact that the U.K. can basically be used as a hub to travel all around within a fairly quick trip. Just excites us to no end and when we do have children I want them to grow up knowing that you can take risks calculated risks but nonetheless. And that these risks do pay off, I have been lucky enough thru my years to see some of the world. But no where near what I want to see. To experience the world on a different axis in my mind. Life was so much different in the places when we went on our trip and I want my kids to be able to experience that. Hell I want to experience that again. I know it is a tough mountain to climb in the coming years with getting everything ready and going thru everything we need to. But I know we would be happy there and thrive there. Now all I can do is go there in June experience what we can (hopefully fall in the love U.K.) which I know I will and now hope there is a job opening that I want in the next few years.

I say a few years because she is starting her job in Oct and needs a few years of experience before we try and move to another country

_________________
White Dial Super Avenger with Batons
Grey Dial Breitling Bentley 6.75

Past:
Black Dial Super Avenger with Numerals
Countless "high priced" cheapos

The words "large house with land" and "30 minute commute around London" do not go together. 30 minutes outside of central London is likely still London, just the built up suburbs. Look on the web at property in the counties around London and you'll get some idea - I grew up in Kent but most will be similar that close to London - also bear in mind that just like in the US there are some towns / areas that are more attractive than others.


this is what I was afraid of. We rent a house on the smaller side now and I don't want to get any smaller that what we have now. I know housing is much different there than it is here. But I have lived in apartments, condos, high rises and I just don't want to raise a family in a small apt that costs me $4500/month or more. I know that is going to be the hardest part I think getting use to the housing arrangements there where everything is smaller but more expensive. But as I ssid in an earlier post it is just part of reality.

_________________
White Dial Super Avenger with Batons
Grey Dial Breitling Bentley 6.75

Past:
Black Dial Super Avenger with Numerals
Countless "high priced" cheapos

If you extend to 60 minute commute you might be lucky. Living closer to the south, e.g., Surrey, and you'll be an hour from central London. You'll likely find the suburban living within a quick commute. However, as mentioned this does come with the associated costs. House prices are more, as are your general living and travel costs.

I cannot give advice on the transfer part, but happy to help with other questions around commuting and living in the U.K having spent the past 10 years commuting in and around London for work.

I appreciate that. If we do end up doing it. I will def pick your brain. Thanks for your response.

_________________
White Dial Super Avenger with Batons
Grey Dial Breitling Bentley 6.75

Past:
Black Dial Super Avenger with Numerals
Countless "high priced" cheapos

I can help with some of the ex-pat stuff, but not specifically with living in London. The wife and I (both US citizens) spent 7 years in Asia, first Singapore and then Hong Kong. It was a great professional experience for me and a great personal experience for both of us. If you work with a large company that has many other ex-pats then they'll be a big resource with things like work visas, COLA adjustments for overseas living, tax preparation (US taxes when living overseas are a nightmare), moving/storage, forwarding US mail weekly, etc. Plan to stay for a while - moving for 1 - 2 years isn't worth it given the transition time and learning curve. Most of the appliances and larger household goods could be purchased used and be adequate for a few years. You're thinking about overseas living for a "different experience" so don't focus on "matching" what you have in the US. Try a different housing style (city flat w/o property), commuting style (public transit) and change up what you do in your spare time. Europe will be at your doorstep, so take advantage of it if you make the move to London.

It can be a great opportunity. Go for it!!!

Desert Hiker

I'm gonna comment on the personal side. With no kids, this is absolutely the best time to try on a new life experience. Nothing opens your eyes & perceptions like living in a different country. But make sure you & your wife make the decision together. Make a committment to 'stick to it no matter what' for an agreed upon time frame. When wrinkles occur (& they will regardless of preparation), there should not be any resentment from one side...

On more practical issues, build up your savings from now. It's always better to have too much rainy day fund than not enough. Shop clothings & personal electronics & such in the US. There's almost nowhere else on Earth where shopping is as good as the US. Find an accountant who is familiar with tax treaties & can prevent double taxation. In some states, if you file tax as non-resident, you can claim quite a substantial amount of foreign income tax free.

_________________
a few Pams...

I appreciate both of your insights Desert Hiker and H2F. It wont be for a few years if we do go ahead and do it, so we will have some time to save up. I agree that you can never have enough money saved for something like that and that both of us need to be in and all in.

Def a good idea Desert Hiker that 1-2 years isn't enough time. If we do do it it would be for anywhere from 5-10 years based on the next promotion that is in line for me. The company I work for has a lot of buildings all over Europe and the rest of the world. So in my mind I am willing to move anywhere in the next few years as we do not have kids as of now. It is the time to do it. If we do move I will do it by jumping in fully to a new culture, a new style of living for sure. In the end that is what it is about.

H2F thanks for the info on the taxes. That is one of my larger concerns that my state would try and pull a fast one. I have heard some horror stories frankly. I def will have to find a good tax guy/girl to make sure that is all taken care of.

Speaking of electronics will electronics purchased over here work over there with the power changes? Maybe I am making this up but isnt the main power over there 220V? If so I am afraid that all our electronics that run on 110V will be fried over there. Or will an adapter and a power converter solve the issue?

_________________
White Dial Super Avenger with Batons
Grey Dial Breitling Bentley 6.75

Past:
Black Dial Super Avenger with Numerals
Countless "high priced" cheapos

The only thing I'd add to this (as an ancestral Londoner, and with a lot of American friends here and there) is that the no-kids thing keeps coming up, and for obvious reasons, but of course it's schooling that is the big watershed, in terms of location, rather than having babies. A number of my US friends came to London with their jobs, had kids in London, and then a few years later relocated to the US. Mixing with other parents in the park, finding a nursery - that sort of stuff comes easy. Babies are surprisingly portable. It's once they start school that stability is obviously desirable. All I'm saying is that in reckoning the next few years, while you'll have a great experience as a couple in London, you shouldn't think that relocating defers the possibility or moment to have kids (and therefore perhaps be deterred). You could have three years as parents abroad even before you started thinking about school and therefore perhaps wanting to settle back home.

Most personal electronics (laptops, shavers & such) I believe has a multi voltage 110V-220V adapters built in nowadays. You can just buy a simple wall adaptor or change the power plug cable end that comes out of the adapter.

Anything that requires a power converter should be avoided imho. Just not worth the hassle. My wife brought her favorite giant heavy mixer that's 110V-only and it works fine for a while with a heavy-duty dual 110V/220V power stabilizer/converter box -- until she forgot one day and plugged it in the wrong end and it blew up the box, the mixer motor & the circuit breaker all in one "pop!"

In general, anything with a big motor or heating element should be avoided.

_________________
a few Pams...