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 Post subject: Re: Cosmonaute
PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 8:35 am 
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Mortys wrote:
Kurt this one has also long subdial hands on small subs.

Or this is a different story?
Just try to understand.
Thank you

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All black AOPA Navitimers had same subdial size and same subdial hands, so yes - a different story...

Kurt B http://www.kurt-b.com



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 Post subject: Re: Cosmonaute
PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:12 pm 
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Several strange things about this late Cosmonaute 806-36 :
1/The bezel is typical from Navi's after 1972 or 1973 . You can see it on 7806 and 8806 Navi's ... and also on early Aviation watches , assembled either with L.G. Breitling remaining spares or with new spares reissued from ex Breitling subcontractors ( Bouille for cases and bezels ) .
2/ As fas as I know, GP cases were fully polished , this one brushed before plating looks like Aviation reissued cases .
3/ 806-36 and 809-36 watches corresponded to the 1st Venus shortage in 1967 ... The 2nd shortage in 1970 gave thge 806-E and 809-E
For those reasons, this Cosmonaute which looks perfect at 1st sight could have been assembled more recently than described.



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 Post subject: Re: Cosmonaute
PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:24 pm 
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Kurt B wrote:
Mortys wrote:
Thank you Kurt for the info.

Your comment make things complicated, as Fred says that the watch is "Perfectly Correct".

Who's correct?

What about this one: looks exactly the same but in stainless steel
https://www.watchpool24.com/en/30733773 ... /nos/steel



That watch has exactly the same "issues", buying vintage watches is very much about using your common sense, and when 2 watches pops up at the same time with same "issues" it turns a red light on for me.

"the book" is a saying we use, but if I was you, I would use me as a reference, at least when it comes to Navitimers in SS.

The below is imo not open for discussion.:

Short subdial hands are for small subdial Navitimers, long subdial hands, are for large subdial Navitimers. The subdial hands on the 2 watches you link to, are the long ones, the subdials are small.

"Swiss Made T" means Tritium on the dial, and it's not......!!!!!


Hence - calling it "perfectly correct" - according to the book (what we know and agree about) is imo wrong .....!!!!

Whether it left Breitling like that, or not - I simply don't know.....

Kurt B http://www.kurt-b.com


Kurt i am still thinking and informing myself about this watch around the net.

What i do not understand is, why would anybody put so much effort and put a watch so clean together and sell it for not a dime of the effort of putting it together considering finding all the ingredients is hell of a work and definitely in this condition...
Why then just 2 if he or the gang wanted to make a big penny out of it?

I just can't solve the puzzle, then i think by my common sense that maybe indeed is put together but by Breitling itself as those days were the crisis days for them, and they tried just use what they had instead of investing more for producing parts.
So maybe it's not with the exact specs of the ones produced in 60's, but well produced and put together in breitling factory. And this makes it well legitimate.

It's just my theory ;) that sounds atleast acceptable to me.

So i think to be honest that with this one i am with fred.

No offenses





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 Post subject: Re: Cosmonaute
PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 1:22 pm 
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saabreit wrote:
Several strange things about this late Cosmonaute 806-36 :
1/The bezel is typical from Navi's after 1972 or 1973 . You can see it on 7806 and 8806 Navi's ... and also on early Aviation watches , assembled either with L.G. Breitling remaining spares or with new spares reissued from ex Breitling subcontractors ( Bouille for cases and bezels ) .
2/ As fas as I know, GP cases were fully polished , this one brushed before plating looks like Aviation reissued cases .
3/ 806-36 and 809-36 watches corresponded to the 1st Venus shortage in 1967 ... The 2nd shortage in 1970 gave thge 806-E and 809-E
For those reasons, this Cosmonaute which looks perfect at 1st sight could have been assembled more recently than described.


Thanks for the info! Very helpful

But what do mean by more recently?

I got the chance to video talk and see the watch live with the seller.
An old man, i guess 75+, who's bought the watch years ago from his mate who had inherited it from his sister who had bought the watch herself in Viena.
So he did not look like a guy trying to sell sth fakey ;) neither his mate i guess.
Looked very honest and more naïve and not really a collector.

Anyway, that's story i am told ;)



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Last edited by Mortys on Tue Mar 28, 2017 6:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Cosmonaute
PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 3:54 am 
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Quote:
So i think to be honest that with this one i am with fred.

No offenses


I'm not offended at all, and feel free to believe what you want, and to choose whether you want to trust a naive old man, who looked very honest, and says he bought the watch from his mate who had inherited the watch from his sister, who had bought it herself in Vienna, or me, I couldn't care less.

The lume that is on both watches is definitely not Tritium, as the "Swiss Made T" in the bottom indicates, it is to the very best of my knowledge - Luminova.

And - according to the internet / wikipedia, Luminova https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super-LumiNova was invented in 1993, some 30+ years after the watch was produced.....!!!!

So I will correct myself
Quote:
Whether it left Breitling like that, or not - I simply don't know.....

It did not leave Breitling like that.....!!!!

Kurt B http://www.kurt-b.com



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 Post subject: Re: Cosmonaute
PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 6:55 am 
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Kurt B wrote:
Quote:
So i think to be honest that with this one i am with fred.

No offenses


I'm not offended at all, and feel free to believe what you want, and to choose whether you want to trust a naive old man, who looked very honest, and says he bought the watch from his mate who had inherited the watch from his sister, who had bought it herself in Vienna, or me, I couldn't care less.

The lume that is on both watches is definitely not Tritium, as the "Swiss Made T" in the bottom indicates, it is to the very best of my knowledge - Luminova.

And - according to the internet / wikipedia, Luminova https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super-LumiNova was invented in 1993, some 30+ years after the watch was produced.....!!!!

So I will correct myself
Quote:
Whether it left Breitling like that, or not - I simply don't know.....

It did not leave Breitling like that.....!!!!

Kurt B http://www.kurt-b.com

Thanks Kurt, i believe all you say, for me this is a great school to acquire more knowledge of vintage breitling watches. I am definitely not an expert and or knowledgeable to recognise what and which are correct or not. I appreciate all your input. Questions and sharing what i think is just giving me more extensive info back ;)

In between i have contacted the seller about a refund and returning the watch incase the watch is not original. So i think i am all safe.

Thanks everyone for sharing your precious knowledge on this matter!


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 Post subject: Re: Cosmonaute
PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 7:47 am 
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Quote:
Thanks Kurt, i believe all you say, for me this is a great school to acquire more knowledge of vintage breitling watches. I am definitely not an expert and or knowledgeable to recognise what and which are correct or not. I appreciate all your input. Questions and sharing what i think is just giving me more extensive info back ;)

In between i have contacted the seller about a refund and returning the watch incase the watch is not original. So i think i am all safe.

Thanks everyone for sharing your precious knowledge on this matter!


We're here to help, and we all learn from it....

Hopefully you're safe, but who will decide whether it's "original" or not ??

My guess is that seller is completely aware of what it is, and he priced it to sell fast, hoping that someone would snatch it in a hurry, so I can imagine that you're in for fight getting your money back, if that's what you want.

Caseback is original Breitling, the dial is original Breitling, lume dosen't have a brand name, hands looks like Breitling, though replacement ones are available, sliderule looks like Breitling, though replacement ones are available, mvt is what it is, and Breitling used it, case is impossible to call, as there's no Breitling number or serial number on it, but Phil have said that it looks "wrong", and I completely agree.
He have pointed out the "806-36 and 809-36 watches corresponded to the 1st Venus shortage in 1967 ... The 2nd shortage in 1970 gave the 806-E and 809-E", issue, of which I was unaware, but it is important information.
I'm unsure about crown & pushers, but they won't make the call anyway.

I'm pretty sure that we all will agree (maybe with the exception of Fred) that it has been assembled from spares, left over from when Breitling went bankrupt, or - new spares reissued from ex Breitling subcontractors, and there have been many like this is the past.

So what does it make it in the wrong eyes (sellers), original Breitling......!!!!! Who is seller ??

Fact is, that Navitimer & Cosmonaute watches has become highly collectible watches, fetching sky high prices if all original & period correct, the watch you unfortunately have bought, have IMO zero collectible value, even though it more or less is built from "original" Breitling parts....

Collectible value aside, if you like it, and it's worth for you, what you have paid for it - then fine.....!!!!!

Kurt B http://www.kurt-b.com



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 Post subject: Re: Cosmonaute
PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 7:54 am 
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Thanks again.
I understand your point.
In the end i have to decide indeed if i am gonna be happy or not.
But the fact that is not a collectible watch, makes it less interesting for me as a newbie collector.
I do definitely enjoy the look of the watch :)
But who knows, maybe in the end i just decide to keep it, maybe after 30 years, if i am still alive, nobody know anything of this ;)



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 Post subject: Re: Cosmonaute
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 8:50 am 
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Kurt B wrote:
Quote:
Thanks Kurt, i believe all you say, for me this is a great school to acquire more knowledge of vintage breitling watches. I am definitely not an expert and or knowledgeable to recognise what and which are correct or not. I appreciate all your input. Questions and sharing what i think is just giving me more extensive info back ;)

In between i have contacted the seller about a refund and returning the watch incase the watch is not original. So i think i am all safe.

Thanks everyone for sharing your precious knowledge on this matter!


We're here to help, and we all learn from it....

Hopefully you're safe, but who will decide whether it's "original" or not ??

My guess is that seller is completely aware of what it is, and he priced it to sell fast, hoping that someone would snatch it in a hurry, so I can imagine that you're in for fight getting your money back, if that's what you want.

Caseback is original Breitling, the dial is original Breitling, lume dosen't have a brand name, hands looks like Breitling, though replacement ones are available, sliderule looks like Breitling, though replacement ones are available, mvt is what it is, and Breitling used it, case is impossible to call, as there's no Breitling number or serial number on it, but Phil have said that it looks "wrong", and I completely agree.
He have pointed out the "806-36 and 809-36 watches corresponded to the 1st Venus shortage in 1967 ... The 2nd shortage in 1970 gave the 806-E and 809-E", issue, of which I was unaware, but it is important information.
I'm unsure about crown & pushers, but they won't make the call anyway.

I'm pretty sure that we all will agree (maybe with the exception of Fred) that it has been assembled from spares, left over from when Breitling went bankrupt, or - new spares reissued from ex Breitling subcontractors, and there have been many like this is the past.

So what does it make it in the wrong eyes (sellers), original Breitling......!!!!! Who is seller ??

Fact is, that Navitimer & Cosmonaute watches has become highly collectible watches, fetching sky high prices if all original & period correct, the watch you unfortunately have bought, have IMO zero collectible value, even though it more or less is built from "original" Breitling parts....

Collectible value aside, if you like it, and it's worth for you, what you have paid for it - then fine.....!!!!!

Kurt B http://www.kurt-b.com


Hi kurt and all others,

Here is the answer of the seller regarding my question about the originality & correctness of the watch:

"""Of course you should and CAN make sure what you buy!
I am collecting vintage chronos of the 50s - 70s. Be assured that it is a 100% Breitling Navitimer Cosmonaute The back is correctly signed with reference 809-36, the serial number 1.361.479 on the back dates it to 1971, The bridge of its Valjoux 7736 movement inside is correctly signed with "Breitling Watch LTD", as every real Vintage Breitling expert can tell you. But be careful a "normal" watchmaker has no idea about the vintage Breitling world! There are other Cosmonaute ones with a Venus 178 movement instead of the Valjoux, but these are thinner watches. You find all these infos on the web.

The best experts you will find in watch fora, where are a lot of incredible knowlegable and incredible helpful guys, just post fotos (or my words here) and ask! (well it may be a little time consuming, to register and get the permission to post)

WatchUseek: http://forums.watchuseek.com/forum.php

TZ: http://www.timezone.com

BUT THE MOST SPECIALISED ON VINTAGE BREITLING is HERE:
http://www.breitlingsource.com

I was not active during the last months in these watchfora, but I was there before a lot, my username is "phranz" :-)

The Number 1 expert worldwide on vintage Breitling calls himself "WatchFred"
He is active in all mentioned fora......and he has the worlds finest collection of Vintage Breitling!
You can simply google his name, find him also on facebook and instagram. But be careful, this Vintage watch world is dangerous like a virus, once you get addicted, it could become time consuming and expensive expensive ;-)
WatchFred is Co- moderator of Breitlings onTZ and active in the other mentioned fora.

BTW I know him personally, because he lives in Vienna and I asked him myself before buying this 809-36, and then and only then I bought it, so you have the best expertise in the world!!

Wish you a lot of fun, if u decide to do this research.
btw you can use everything I provided to you with real experts, including what I write here......"""

So i guess i am the one who's naive and real newbie as i thought he's not a collector and have no idea of watches haha
Now i have asked him for refund but he claims that the watch is sold as is and accepts no returns.
So be alert about this person as he behaves completely different than he claimed to be.

Kurt and all others thank you again for your input in this great forum.


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 Post subject: Re: Cosmonaute
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:23 am 
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Quote:
Hi kurt and all others,

Here is the answer of the seller regarding my question about the originality & correctness of the watch:

"""Of course you should and CAN make sure what you buy!
I am collecting vintage chronos of the 50s - 70s. Be assured that it is a 100% Breitling Navitimer Cosmonaute The back is correctly signed with reference 809-36, the serial number 1.361.479 on the back dates it to 1971, The bridge of its Valjoux 7736 movement inside is correctly signed with "Breitling Watch LTD", as every real Vintage Breitling expert can tell you. But be careful a "normal" watchmaker has no idea about the vintage Breitling world! There are other Cosmonaute ones with a Venus 178 movement instead of the Valjoux, but these are thinner watches. You find all these infos on the web.

The best experts you will find in watch fora, where are a lot of incredible knowlegable and incredible helpful guys, just post fotos (or my words here) and ask! (well it may be a little time consuming, to register and get the permission to post)

WatchUseek: http://forums.watchuseek.com/forum.php

TZ: http://www.timezone.com

BUT THE MOST SPECIALISED ON VINTAGE BREITLING is HERE:
http://www.breitlingsource.com

I was not active during the last months in these watchfora, but I was there before a lot, my username is "phranz" :-)

The Number 1 expert worldwide on vintage Breitling calls himself "WatchFred"
He is active in all mentioned fora......and he has the worlds finest collection of Vintage Breitling!
You can simply google his name, find him also on facebook and instagram. But be careful, this Vintage watch world is dangerous like a virus, once you get addicted, it could become time consuming and expensive expensive ;-)
WatchFred is Co- moderator of Breitlings onTZ and active in the other mentioned fora.

BTW I know him personally, because he lives in Vienna and I asked him myself before buying this 809-36, and then and only then I bought it, so you have the best expertise in the world!!

Wish you a lot of fun, if u decide to do this research.
btw you can use everything I provided to you with real experts, including what I write here......"""

So i guess i am the one who's naive and real newbie as i thought he's not a collector and have no idea of watches haha
Now i have asked him for refund but he claims that the watch is sold as is and accepts no returns.
So be alert about this person as he behaves completely different than he claimed to be.

Kurt and all others thank you again for your input in this great forum.


What a dishonest clown he is, and sorry to say that this was more or less what I predicted.

I sincerely don't hope that you bought the watch solely because you at first, had been told that it was "perfectly correct".
Though this is not a courtroom, and I am not a member of a jury - it was a wrong call.

Fred is definitely very knowledge when it comes to Vintage Breitling, and absolutely one of the best, but with that title comes a certain responsibility, I know that because I feel it myself.

In this jungle called Vintage Breitling, people listen to guys like him & myself, some guys use a serious amount of money, after having asked us "so called" experts, for our opinion, the least we are obliged to, is to do our best, and if we fail - be ready to stand corrected, and admit our mistakes, as the problem is - if we don't, the smell takes on & on, and remember - the threads stands forever to be read, and to cause further doubt - if not . . . ! ! !

I don't know if you are allowed to mention sellers name here, but if you are, then I'm sure that it will help other potential buyers down the road.
And a picture of the watch would help as well, as that way people like yourself can educate themselves through this thread.

Kurt B http://www.kurt-b.com



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 Post subject: Re: Cosmonaute
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:49 am 
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Kurt B wrote:
Quote:
Hi kurt and all others,

Here is the answer of the seller regarding my question about the originality & correctness of the watch:

"""Of course you should and CAN make sure what you buy!
I am collecting vintage chronos of the 50s - 70s. Be assured that it is a 100% Breitling Navitimer Cosmonaute The back is correctly signed with reference 809-36, the serial number 1.361.479 on the back dates it to 1971, The bridge of its Valjoux 7736 movement inside is correctly signed with "Breitling Watch LTD", as every real Vintage Breitling expert can tell you. But be careful a "normal" watchmaker has no idea about the vintage Breitling world! There are other Cosmonaute ones with a Venus 178 movement instead of the Valjoux, but these are thinner watches. You find all these infos on the web.

The best experts you will find in watch fora, where are a lot of incredible knowlegable and incredible helpful guys, just post fotos (or my words here) and ask! (well it may be a little time consuming, to register and get the permission to post)

WatchUseek: http://forums.watchuseek.com/forum.php

TZ: http://www.timezone.com

BUT THE MOST SPECIALISED ON VINTAGE BREITLING is HERE:
http://www.breitlingsource.com

I was not active during the last months in these watchfora, but I was there before a lot, my username is "phranz" :-)

The Number 1 expert worldwide on vintage Breitling calls himself "WatchFred"
He is active in all mentioned fora......and he has the worlds finest collection of Vintage Breitling!
You can simply google his name, find him also on facebook and instagram. But be careful, this Vintage watch world is dangerous like a virus, once you get addicted, it could become time consuming and expensive expensive ;-)
WatchFred is Co- moderator of Breitlings onTZ and active in the other mentioned fora.

BTW I know him personally, because he lives in Vienna and I asked him myself before buying this 809-36, and then and only then I bought it, so you have the best expertise in the world!!

Wish you a lot of fun, if u decide to do this research.
btw you can use everything I provided to you with real experts, including what I write here......"""

So i guess i am the one who's naive and real newbie as i thought he's not a collector and have no idea of watches haha
Now i have asked him for refund but he claims that the watch is sold as is and accepts no returns.
So be alert about this person as he behaves completely different than he claimed to be.

Kurt and all others thank you again for your input in this great forum.


What a dishonest clown he is, and sorry to say that this was more or less what I predicted.

I sincerely don't hope that you bought the watch solely because you at first, had been told that it was "perfectly correct".
Though this is not a courtroom, and I am not a member of a jury - it was a wrong call.

Fred is definitely very knowledge when it comes to Vintage Breitling, and absolutely one of the best, but with that title comes a certain responsibility, I know that because I feel it myself.

In this jungle called Vintage Breitling, people listen to guys like him & myself, some guys use a serious amount of money, after having asked us "so called" experts, for our opinion, the least we are obliged to, is to do our best, and if we fail - be ready to stand corrected, and admit our mistakes, as the problem is - if we don't, the smell takes on & on, and remember - the threads stands forever to be read, and to cause further doubt - if not . . . ! ! !

I don't know if you are allowed to mention sellers name here, but if you are, then I'm sure that it will help other potential buyers down the road.
And a picture of the watch would help as well, as that way people like yourself can educate themselves through this thread.

Kurt B http://www.kurt-b.com

Dear kurt
I bought the watch indeed because it was confirmed correct.
So who am i to question people so knowledgeable about vintage breitling world. And i understand in these vintage breitling murky waters none knows everything as it is so complicated.

But i did not expect that this guy ( as i am allowed as he himself wrote that i can use everything he has said including his name Franz Posch) behave like this. With that money i will neither bankrupt nor become rich..
But i think honesty lasts forever.

I have of course started paypal buyer's protection policy to return the coin. Wait and see what paypal judges.

Unfortunately i did not download the pictures because i got a link from him to review them on his own server, though i have the watch right now and need time to make pictures myself.
Soon i will share them here.

Thanks again!



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 Post subject: Re: Cosmonaute
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 2:24 pm 
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I have stayed out of this conversation for the most part but let me add a few cents here and there

What most people (looking in from the outside) seem to to forget is that its not a matter of who knows more than someone else
No one (not a single person!) that I know has all the information , we all stand on the shoulders of the folks around us

Where would we be without the discussions between Ubik, Kurt , TomVox and others about the early navitimers and their markings
Where would we be without WatchFred's fantastic and incredible vetted collection
Where would be be without the Madmann's claims that were refuted
Where would be be without people like Paul , David, Wayne .. all with a healthy dose of OCD and more questions than a sane person is willing to answer ?

there is no single 'expert' that knows everything , but at least there are some people around willing to admit they learn from others , and thats the reason I am still here , to learn ..

As for the GP Cosmonaute , I would like to have it 'in hand' before commenting . the luminova does seem weird with the T on the dial but I do seem to remember having seen a few others before . Does it make sense ? .. no ... is it impossible ? lets just say I have learned not to dismiss certain things as I have come to realize we dont know what we dont know

_________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Breitling and Boats. The rest I wasted" - mostly Elmore Leonard



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 Post subject: Re: Cosmonaute
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:50 am 
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Quote:
What most people (looking in from the outside) seem to forget is that it's not a matter of who knows more than someone else

Completely agree

Quote:
No one (not a single person!) that I know has all the information , we all stand on the shoulders of the folks around us

Completely agree

Quote:
Where would we be without the discussions between Ubik, Kurt , TomVox and others about the early navitimers and their markings
Where would we be without WatchFred's fantastic and incredible vetted collection
Where would be be without the Madmann's claims that were refuted
Where would be be without people like Paul , David, Wayne .. all with a healthy dose of OCD and more questions than a sane person is willing to answer ?


Completely agree, but you forgot to mention one person.
Where would we be without Dracha's excellent postings & explanations.

Quote:
there is no single 'expert' that knows everything , but at least there are some people around willing to admit they learn from others , and that's the reason I am still here , to learn ..

Completely agree

Quote:
As for the GP Cosmonaute , I would like to have it 'in hand' before commenting . the luminova does seem weird with the T on the dial but I do seem to remember having seen a few others before . Does it make sense ? .. no ... is it impossible ? lets just say I have learned not to dismiss certain things as I have come to realize we dont know what we dont know.


Having seen others before, dosen't make this one right.....!!!!!

We - the members, are the Forum, as where would it be without us.

We praise ourselves for being the best, and I stand by that, as there's simply nowhere else one can go, and get even close to the information we provide, when it comes to Vintage Breitling, and from the write-up you & Fred did on Fratello watches, I know that you agree.

Rene: There’s really only 1 place that I would recommend. And that is the vintage sub forum on breitlingsource. Very knowledgeable people, very helpful and you typically will get an answer within a few hours.

And the way I read the write-up, you more or less copied yourself here, which is perfectly fine.

And for verification of vintage Breitling watches my advice would be to find the http://www.breitlingsource.com forum or another forum with really knowledgeable experts and ask about a particular watch to prevent a potential new owner from getting burned.

For those of you who haven't read it, I strongly recommend that you do, as it's nothing more or less than simply excellent
https://www.fratellowatches.com/vintage-breitling-the-expert-interviews/

So what happened, a potential new owner got burned.

There was enough issues with that watch, to cause the best of us to pull the breaks, instead of giving it a short & precise "perfectly correct" verdict 15 minutes after the question "What do you think? Correct in all details" came on, but to make it easy, let's boil it down to 1 issue, as we all know that this issue is the most important feature on a Vintage Watch - the dial.

We - the experts, should without the slightest doubt, be able to say for sure that the lume on that dial was not Tritium, which it by no doubt - should have been (imo the pictures was by far good enough to make that call), and basically it ends there.

Now buyer have a watch with a dial, which for the collector community makes the watch practically worthless, simply because he put trust in the community.

We have discussed so many of these kind of watches in the past, they have been brought together with leftovers from Breitling, or with new parts made by Breitling sub contractors, and imo - this was just another easy one to call.

Very important.: This is not a personal hunt towards Fred, and to be honest, I am 100% sure that he is completely aware of the lume not being Tritium, and I believe he wish he could turn back time

Fred is an extremely knowledge person when it comes to Vintage Breitling, online with the best ones on other Brands, and hence people listen to him blindfolded, I'd dare to say that I'd do it myself.
And when you're up there, there's simply no room to fail on such a simple & extremely important matter, as whether the lume on a dial is Tritium or not, when the pictures by far are good enough to call it.

Again - this is not a court case, and the forum is not a court room, so but in what you guys want, my opinion is hammered in stone "not good enough"....!!!

Let it be a wakeup call for all of us, as dark skies are gathering above Vintage Breitling watches, since the demand is increasing, pricing are going crazy, and simultaneously the bad guys are becoming better & better in their attempt to cheat us, and - since we are the best, we will be the ones to call the verdicts on the most difficult ones that pops up down the road.

Thanks for reading it, Kurt



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 Post subject: Re: Cosmonaute
PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 2:13 am 
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Update!

Finally the matter got into a claim through paypal as the seller did not accept the return of his own watch, but in the end paypal found me legible for refund and i got finally my money back.

As promised, here are the main front and caseback pictures.

Thanks again!


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 Post subject: Re: Cosmonaute
PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 2:45 am 
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thank you for the better pictures - did you verify whether the lume is still "active", as SL would of course still be ?
case marking for me is correct above any doubt, I have seen several of these higher GP "fat lugs" cases and the attention to detail would make it hard for me to believe these weren't original.



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