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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 12:03 am 
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http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Breitli ... 4304234715

Breitling scripts on the dial and bridge marking worryingly good & the caseback looks just like period Breitlings, maybe a case manufacturer had Breitling overstock ?
Image
Image


Some weeks ago a similar watch was on sale from Australia, at least without a faked dial and bridge:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NICE-CLEBAR-BRE ... 256b7a2726


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 12:09 am 
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looks to me they're both nice Clebar watches, but one of the watches was made into a Breitling fake with a dial stamp and a premier bridge ?

noticed that both have the same (KXF ?) import code as well ?


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 12:18 am 
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Dracha wrote:
looks to me they're both nice Clebar watches, but one of the watches was made into a Breitling fake with a dial stamp and a premier bridge ?

noticed that both have the same (KXF ?) import code as well ?


definitely frankenfaked Clebar/Zodiac, but the similarities on the caseback are interesting, including the "correct" same reference number, afraid nobody from the 40s around we could ask.

Edit: remembered the 788 is the tricompax version of the 777, so it should be waterproof with screw on caseback, so similarities are probably coincidental; makes we wonder about the snapon caseback 765s from the mid/late 40s we have seen in other threads ?

found this http://www.lamesuredutemps.com/one.cfm? ... ABB77B9AC4, caseback comparison below (doubt bridge engraving is correct on this one).

ref 788 Breitling, V152, 1945:
Image

ref 788 "Breitling Clebar", 1945:
Image


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 7:19 am 
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I think this one is mostly right, but the dial is not original.

"Clebar" was in use since 1925 by a New York importer, Edward Trauner. I presume "JXF" is his US import code, but my trademark index and Pritchard do not show it. It was only in 1955 that Trauner established the Zodiac Watch Company in New York and before then, he imported watches of several makes. In other words, I wouldn't necessarily expect a Clebar to be a Zodiac until after 1955.

My current working hypothesis is that several US distributors imported Breitlings prior to the establishment of Breitling America in July 1947. Even Icko Wakmann imported some as of 1943 and we have seen credible other signatures of US importers in that 1940s, pre-Breitling America timeframe. So, I tend to think this watch was imported by Trauner in 1945/46.

It's a dead cert that the dial was done in Argentina or close by, since it sports the distinctive break in the script that is the signature of one or more workshops in that region.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 8:09 am 
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Bill in Sacramento wrote:
I think this one is mostly right, but the dial is not original.

"Clebar" was in use since 1925 by a New York importer, Edward Trauner. I presume "JXF" is his US import code, but my trademark index and Pritchard do not show it. It was only in 1955 that Trauner established the Zodiac Watch Company in New York and before then, he imported watches of several makes. In other words, I wouldn't necessarily expect a Clebar to be a Zodiac until after 1955.

My current working hypothesis is that several US distributors imported Breitlings prior to the establishment of Breitling America in July 1947. Even Icko Wakmann imported some as of 1943 and we have seen credible other signatures of US importers in that 1940s, pre-Breitling America timeframe. So, I tend to think this watch was imported by Trauner in 1945/46.

It's a dead cert that the dial was done in Argentina or close by, since it sports the distinctive break in the script that is the signature of one or more workshops in that region.


The code is KXF for Clebar and Zodiac. Zodiac has been around much longer than 1955 as a Swiss maker starting in the late 1800's. I had a really nice Zodiac chronograph from around 1943, Valjoux 71 movement, that was purchased by a WW2 American pilot in Morocco around that time. He kept it in a shoe box all these years and I was lucky enough to purchase it from him and got it restored. It was the earliest Zodiac chrono I have seen.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 10:42 am 
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I hope I wasn't implying that Zodiac was not an historic Swiss watch maker. They were innovative and high quality makers for well before 1955. But, "Clebar" is a trademark owned by a US entity that imported watches before the lash up with Zodiac in 1955. There are "Clebar" watches made by other companies and sold in the US with the KXF import code before 1955. I think this is one.


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