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| Breitling 2110 - Heuer 12? https://breitlingsource.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=35081 |
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| Author: | Alex ate14 [ Thu Nov 24, 2011 2:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | Breitling 2110 - Heuer 12? |
Hello everybody! Here we have a Breitling 2110 in very nice condition but a small question appears. Is it possible for a Breitling nu have a Heuer stamped movement? I know all about the history of the movement, the problem is the name mentioned on it. Please be so kind and share your opinion. Thank you!     
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| Author: | WatchFred [ Thu Nov 24, 2011 2:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Breitling 2110 - Heuer 12? |
is it possible: pictures prove that. did this happen at the Breitling factories: no somebody just popped a working Heuer movement into a 2110, assume they had only case&dial, otherwise would have been smart enough to swap the bridge, hands look brand new, seem recent replacements. saw this quite often, a seller Austria had several of these. |
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| Author: | Alex ate14 [ Thu Nov 24, 2011 2:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Breitling 2110 - Heuer 12? |
WatchFred wrote: is it possible: pictures prove that. did this happen at the Breitling factories: no somebody just popped a working Heuer movement into a 2110, assume they had only case&dial, otherwise would have been smart enough to swap the bridge, hands look brand new, seem recent replacements. saw this quite often, a seller Austria had several of these. The idea is that everything looks almost as new. There are no differences in the condition of the components. The watchmaker that opened it said that nobody ever worked on that movement. This are the reasons why I'm tempted to say that this could be a strange but original. |
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| Author: | Roffensian [ Thu Nov 24, 2011 5:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Breitling 2110 - Heuer 12? |
Alex ate14 wrote: WatchFred wrote: is it possible: pictures prove that. did this happen at the Breitling factories: no somebody just popped a working Heuer movement into a 2110, assume they had only case&dial, otherwise would have been smart enough to swap the bridge, hands look brand new, seem recent replacements. saw this quite often, a seller Austria had several of these. The idea is that everything looks almost as new. There are no differences in the condition of the components. The watchmaker that opened it said that nobody ever worked on that movement. This are the reasons why I'm tempted to say that this could be a strange but original. I agree that it's original - an original Heuer movement. You would likely see differences if just the bidge had been replaced but here a Breitling with a broken movement was given a donor Heuer movement - let's face it they are effectively identical so it's an easy swap. Not a chance that the case and movement started life together. |
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| Author: | Alex ate14 [ Thu Nov 24, 2011 1:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Breitling 2110 - Heuer 12? |
OK, thank you for your answers! |
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| Author: | Bridgestone [ Fri Nov 25, 2011 11:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Breitling 2110 - Heuer 12? |
The 1960s saw the race towards the development of the first automatic chronograph of the world. Two groups were in contention for this feat. The group of Movado/ Zenith versus Heuer/ Breitling/ Hamilton/ Dubois Depraz. Both groups achieved their aims independently, at about the same time and exhibited their new developments at the Basel Fair in 1969. Both claimed to be the first to introduce the first automatic chronograph of the world. However, the caliber 11 by the group of Heuer/ Breitling/ Hamilton/ Dubois Depraz would beat the Movado/ Zenith team by over a month. The main competition of Movado/ Zenith came from the amalgamation of the chronograph specialists Breitling and Heuer-Leonidas with Hamiliton-Bruen and Dubois Depraz, who started the development of their project in 1965. When the delegation of the four houses met together for the first time in 1965, they were so obsessed with keeping things quiet that they gave their project a confidential code name: 99. During this meeting, the role each house would play was distributed in utter secrecy. Bruen would be in charge of the special automatic mechanism (adapted from Bruen’s "Intramatic" Caliber : Planetary rotor of heavy winding in both direction via gliding pinion); Dubois-Depraz would be responsible for the chronographic module (chronograph unit 8510 with coulisse-lever switching, equipped with a 12-hour and a 30-minute counter) as well as the oscillating pinion invented by Edouard Heuer. Breitling and Heuer would develop the other components and oversee the design of the watch dial and case. Named the "Chronomatic", the movement was used in the few houses under different models. With Heuer, it is used in "Monaco", "Carrera" and the "Autavia". "Chronomatic" under Breitling and Hamiliton Bruen. Some of the other comments on the caliber 11/ 12 : "The more common variety of the Autavia is the 3 register (no sub seconds, but second, minute, and hour registers) automatic movement, with the crown on the opposite side of the case as the pushers. These used the Caliber 11 or 12 movement (co-developed by Breitling, Heuer, and Hamilton/Buren) with the micro-rotor automatic design. These are accurate movements. I always check out the autowind section carefully, as they are prone to wear and not functioning correctly (most of the autowind section is unjewelled)." - Tom Gref, AWI Certified Master Watchmaker. |
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| Author: | Roffensian [ Sat Nov 26, 2011 5:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Breitling 2110 - Heuer 12? |
Bridgestone wrote: However, the caliber 11 by the group of Heuer/ Breitling/ Hamilton/ Dubois Depraz would beat the Movado/ Zenith team by over a month. That depends how you are keeping score. There are generally (but not exclusively) accepted examples of Chrono-matics in a pre-series from September 1968. Zenith announced and showed the El Primero in January 1969, but it was not production ready. Breitling / Heuer et al didn't announce and show until March 1969 at Basel, but they also showed a production ready watch and it was on sale by April 1969 Zenith didn't have a production watch with the El Primero ready until late May / June 1969. |
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| Author: | WatchFred [ Sat Nov 26, 2011 5:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Breitling 2110 - Heuer 12? |
and apparently Seiko might have been the first in full production, if you are interested in a little history of project 99, the chrono-matic: http://www.onthedash.com/docs/Project99.html |
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| Author: | jlee5050 [ Sat Nov 26, 2011 9:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Breitling 2110 - Heuer 12? |
WatchFred wrote: and apparently Seiko might have been the first in full production, if you are interested in a little history of project 99, the chrono-matic: http://www.onthedash.com/docs/Project99.html I read that article too Fred... BUT.... I don't buy the "Seiko first" story... 
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| Author: | Bridgestone [ Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Breitling 2110 - Heuer 12? |
No one says anything? Clock is original or Franken? Until someone will post an official response I am 100% convinced that it is original. |
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| Author: | WatchFred [ Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Breitling 2110 - Heuer 12? |
Bridgestone wrote: No one says anything? Clock is original or Franken? Until someone will post an official response I am 100% convinced that it is original. ? both Roff and I quite clearly stated our opinion that it is not original but a combination of an authentic Breitling case and an authentic Heuer movement, though neither of us would claim this was an "official response" 
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| Author: | Dracha [ Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Breitling 2110 - Heuer 12? |
WatchFred wrote: both Roff and I quite clearly stated our opinion that it is not original but a combination of an authentic Breitling case and an authentic Heuer movement +1 add me to that list as well however, some people will always believe what suits them best
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| Author: | Roffensian [ Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Breitling 2110 - Heuer 12? |
Bridgestone wrote: No one says anything? Clock is original or Franken? Until someone will post an official response I am 100% convinced that it is original. Your watch and your beliefs. No harm in that unless the watch gets misrepresented as original when being sold. It's a franken watch, Breitling would no more use a Heuer movement than they would a Rolex movement and if the watch weren't yours then you would agree. |
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| Author: | jlee5050 [ Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Breitling 2110 - Heuer 12? |
Sorry Bridgestone... doesn't make sense to me either... franken IMO... but you are entitled to your opinions... and I will agree with the others too... Heuer stamped Caliber 12 in 2110 case? possible yes... Caliber 12 is caliber 12... but Heuer stamped movement with a Breitling dial and hands? Nope... |
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