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 Post subject: Waterproof Tester
PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 3:57 pm 
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I have a question for the experts regarding Waterproof testing. Obviously with high end watches making sure they stay water resistant is crucial. I have been to 1 watchmakers place and watched him water test my watch. Also seen some youtube videos on it and basically understand how they work. I have automatic watches that go from 30M to 200M currently. My question has to do with my newly bought Breitling Old Navitimer II.

The Navitimer is rated up to 3ATM, 100ft, 30M. That is providing all the gaskets are in good condition. I have read endless hours of what you can do with this watch and my opinion is lite water spray only. I like to wear my other watches in the shower and once a week I use a old toothbrush and some body wash and give the watch and bracelet a good going over to keep the dirt out. Obviously with the Navitimer I am concerned.

So I am toying with the idea of buying a Ebay Chinese waterproof testing machine. I can buy it and get it delivered for around $220 total. I figure its a cheap investment for some very expensive watches I own. I know how to use the waterproof machine but but have a more technical question for others on the board that may know the answer.

So say I buy this machine and it shows up. (I dont want to have to go to the jewelers all the time to have this test done) I get the water in and place the watch on the hanger and seal the unit up. I can now pump up the machine (it goes up to 6ATM) and let it stabilize at my setting for about 3 minutes. On a 3ATM watch like the Navitimer do you just pump it up to "only" 3ATM? Or can you pump it up higher? Without actually knowing all the ins and outs I figure if you go too high (say 6ATM) you stand the chance of maybe blowing through the seals and/or air inside the case which may do more harm? Is pumping it up to only 3ATM (the watches 3ATM rated limit) the appropriate thing to do? Or for that matter only pumping it up to each watches specific rating?

TIA, Jim


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 Post subject: Re: Waterproof Tester
PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 10:30 pm 
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Hi Jim,

I figure it like this. Whether you use a Chinese made tester or one from somewhere else, you are still subjecting your watch to water. For me that's the most important issue.

I can understand your need to test your watches regularly, as you use them in water intense situations and I would not suggest for a moment that your change your practice. But........ I try my hardest to avoid water on my watches (Breitling or any other make) at all times, cause I just don't trust the 'label on the lid'. I don't tempt fait and I can never be sure if its going to be OK this time, or will it be a tragedy. I don't want to entrust this to a service department either, so I never believe any rating for any watch and I frankly ignore it. Sorry, that's just how it is with me.

Unless its for a work situation (diving for instance) then that would be the only concession to testing I would consider. Seals are seals. Some will go due to deterioration over time, some will stay in tact till the next service. Some get moved during service, and the rest is history. I clean my watches without the aid of water normally, and any water applied to it is via a tissue only. I never vigorously scrub with brushes and never immerse them in water in the shower. I don't wear any jewellery at all (not even a ring) so I have no knowledge of how these things are cleaned in a shower situation, but to me it spells danger so I avoid it.

As far as the testing goes, the watch is only recommended, and therefore warranted, for the pressure stated for that particular watch. To go higher would mean, as you suggest, that damage could result in the testing. You have to imagine that Breitling would add a safety margin to this as well, as in the field we don't know how long or what environmental factors were used in achieving pressure and any subsequent failure. I am not even sure how the pressure rating for a watch is calculated. Is it at normal room temperature, or in a salt water environment, who knows! What are the exact circumstances for the rating is probably more likely what I am saying. Keep in mind that the test over 3 minutes is hardly enough time to subject a watch seal to destruction, so even if you did go above 3ATM it would take sometime to do damage I would suggest. I will probably be picked up on this, but pressure rating is all about the build up of force and the 'letting go' of materials. Its not like putting 240V into a 110V appliance. This is different.

The real issue of a good tester is its certification. If it comes with a detailed description on how accurate the pressure measurement in the unit is, then maybe 'fair enough'. It would also need to explain how the rating is gauged against normal pressure and what that means when pressure testing on watches. Pressure is pressure, but there are many slips between the lip and cup and I would not be satisfied without a lab standard reviews of the calibration of such testers. I guess thats why you might pay a lot more for one from somewhere else.

Hope that helps.

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 Post subject: Re: Waterproof Tester
PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2013 3:53 am 
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I share P51's risk-aversion. I like dive watches for their aesthetics and don't subject mine to anything more than the occasional wipe with a damp cloth. Heck, I even catch myself pulling my cuffs down over a watch in a drizzle. Logically I know I could swim with my dive watches but I'd spend all the time terrified there was some or other ingress, so I don't. A fairly extreme position, confessedly.

But as the OP anticipates, even for those more balanced than me, a Navi in a shower is just asking for trouble.


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 Post subject: Re: Waterproof Tester
PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2013 5:43 am 
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I bought my watches to be used. I trust that many of them are very finely made and will live up to the standards that they show in there literature from the manufacturers. I am older and swim regularly. I have yet to bring any of my watch's in the pool (worried about Chlorine issues and bezel inserts) and have no need to scuba dive anymore. But I do want the ability to take the watch in the shower for regular cleanings and also have the ability to have the watch take a dip in the pool or ocean if the need arises.

So for me rather than have to go in every year as some recommend to have your watches tested for water resistance I would like to have the option of doing it at home. I currently have 4 automatic watches and would like to regularly test them to make sure there's no leaks. This Waterproof tester pre pressurizes the watch and case. So if there's any integrity issues after 3 minutes of dry pressure saturation so you will see bubbles escaping out of where the leak is on your watch as the pressure of the tester is reduced and the watch in under water. I see no risk in that and IMO would be a good service interval indicator when you watch needs to be re-gasket-ed because of leaks.

So its a risk I am willing to take for a small investment. I appreciate the advice given but am curious if there's any watchmakers out there that can answer the waterproof tester question?


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 Post subject: Re: Waterproof Tester
PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2013 7:11 am 
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Obviously using a pressure tester runs absolutely no risk of water getting in - that's the whole point.

I really don't see the point of pressure testing watches because it has no bearing on using the watch in the real world - you simply won't be exposing the watch to static water pressure, it will always be dynamic water pressure so the test is meaningless even if you knew the pressure of the water that the watch was being exposed to out of the tester.

If you pressurise a tester using the Rolex method (the suspended watch one) beyond the rating of the watch then there will at some point be air leakage from the movement which is effectively a temporary failure of the seals. I doubt that will happen at 3.1 atmospheres on a watch rated for 3, but it likely will happen before 6 atmospheres. As others have said I also wouldn't trust a Chinese tester to be rated accurately - there's a reason watchmakers don't use them!

If you must buy one then I certainly wouldn't pressurise beyond the rating of any watch.


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 Post subject: Re: Waterproof Tester
PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2013 12:04 pm 
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Thanks Roff, one of your older posts is what I read where you stated about a lite rinse and cleaning wouldn't hurt a Navitimer. Those are good words and will likely be my guide with using the Navitimer and water usage. I wont take it swimming but will with my higher rated watches.

I have a local watchmaker but so far he's really hard to get a hold of and it takes a long time to get work done. I dropped off a watch in August and am still waiting on it. I thought I would continuously use him even though he was a half hour away but since his communication isnt to my liking I am looking for another watchmaker.

I located another 30 year watchmaker and went to his shop now 1 hour away. I went to get my Rolex President authenticated because it was an online purchase from a trusted source. After making contact with the second watchmaker (both are AWCI accredited) he inspected my watch and told me everything looks good. He got busy with other people and I waited around till it slowed down again. Since he opened up my watch and re closed the case back he handed me my watch back and I inquired about pressure testing it. He said if I wanted to wait he could do it which I did. After about an hour he tested it in front of me and it had no bubbles coming out of any where. That gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling.

Now this is what gets me and why I am having a hard time trusting these guys fully. He point blank told me he never pressure tests them for the most part after service. He told me he can tell by how the crown fits and how the case back fits. To me its hard to fathom you entrust a very expensive watch to someone like that, wait 4 weeks to 4 months for a full service and then get it back and he doesn't pressure check them? Maybe he is right but what if he isnt? I have to tell you even though he was a nice guy I wont be going back there again.

I sure hope the factories at least pressure test them after a full service because thats where my watches will go from now on. May pay a bit more for the service but I know it will be done right.

The Chinese machines may not have the same tolerances but I could always upgrade the pressure gauge from a reliable US source. All it is is a pressure vessel anyway.


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 Post subject: Re: Waterproof Tester
PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2013 4:43 pm 
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Its not that the tests are irrelevant, its just how you use the data gained from the test for your watch. What does it mean as a reliable interpretation of the watch condition as far as waterproofing goes. You are right in that they are just a pressure vessel and the results should speak for themselves. But after the test has been conducted, what do the results mean? Bubbling means one thing, but what about the results from a positive test? Probably all satisfactory in your particular circumstances.......... and given environmental factors, should be confidence enough.

If you decide on testing yourself and you buy equipment for that purpose, then perhaps devise a set of experiments to prove the right circumstances that you can confirm the validity of the test and know in your own mind that this test is safe for your watches. A certain calibration will render a certain result, etc. You will become the Forums pressure test expert I suspect and I would definitely defer to your expertise. :wink:

If you decide on the expertise of a watchmaker, then I would find one that you are comfortable with and who you can get on board with your requirements. You need the confidence that whoever is conducting the tests knows what they are doing and that they take it seriously. A walk in might prove the slowest way of getting a test done, but a prior call might help to save you time and inconvenience.

All the best for the festive season.

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 Post subject: Re: Waterproof Tester
PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2013 5:10 pm 
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Like I said above, I am just trying to make sure my watch will withstand the pressure from taking a shower. The watch isn't in the direct stream at all and to my knowledge there is no pressure trying to force the water into the watch other than what comes out of the shower head.

So for what it worth I already have been doing this with 3 other watches for years with no issues. The only watch I am concerned with is the newly bought Navitimer since its rated so low. We will see what happens. I didn't buy the machine yet but am leaning that way. Hopefully get a few watchmakers opinions too.


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 Post subject: Re: Waterproof Tester
PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 5:27 am 
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OK, a second and final go. I said above a Navi in a shower was asking for trouble. Here's what Breitling have to say on the matter:

http://www.breitling.com/en/service/water-resistance/

ie a 30m Navi is specifically *not* spec/d to go in a shower. But it's your watch.


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 Post subject: Re: Waterproof Tester
PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 6:25 am 
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I live in a rural area so have a well rather than municipal water. That means that I have to have equipment in the basement to regulate my own water pressure so I know exactly what the pressure is coming out of the system. My domestic water pressure is broadly comparable to municipal water and is currently set for 56 psi - 5.6 atmospheres. That's almost twice the rating of a Navitimer without even factoring in the steam that builds up in a shower cubicle.

It would seem obvious that a shower has an environment beyond that which the watch is rated for and I don't think that many of us need a watch while showering.


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 Post subject: Re: Waterproof Tester
PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 2:00 pm 
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56psi = 4atm

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 Post subject: Re: Waterproof Tester
PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 3:32 pm 
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P51 wrote:
56psi = 4atm


3.81 actually, serves me right for posting before coffee. Regardless, it exceeds the Navitimer's rating - even you have to agree with me on that.


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 Post subject: Re: Waterproof Tester
PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 5:03 pm 
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Roffensian wrote:
P51 wrote:
56psi = 4atm


3.81 actually, serves me right for posting before coffee. Regardless, it exceeds the Navitimer's rating - even you have to agree with me on that.


Yes Roff, I agree.

Have a great Christmas break.

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 Post subject: Re: Waterproof Tester
PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 2:51 pm 
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Jim Smyth wrote:
Like I said above, I am just trying to make sure my watch will withstand the pressure from taking a shower.

TBH it'll just be much safer to remove your Navi before taking a shower. No-one really needs a watch in the shower and it'll save any potential problems to just simply take it off.

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 Post subject: Re: Waterproof Tester
PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 7:53 am 
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The shower is just a easy way for a cleaning of the watch with a old toothbrush and body wash. Been doing it on other higher water rated watches and diamond jewelery for many years. Comes out looking like new that way and gets in all the nooks and cranny's.

Its a good thing the watch is still packed and under the Christmas tree right now. Looks like I will have to be more careful with this watch and also last night learned about the AR coating on the outside of the crystal. I have never owned a watch with AR coating on the outside and didnt know it existed till last night. That could have been a hard lesson to learn.

So I will be removing the bracelet for thorough cleanings and be very gentle with the head end of the watch. I have picked up a lot of great tips on some of the older threads here on how to clean the case properly. I plan on getting some Cape Cod Cloth's. Does anyone ever use microfiber clothes for drying off of there watches? It seems soft enough.

Happy Holidays to everyone, hope Santa is kind to you today. :mrgreen:


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