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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 6:29 am 
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Hi guys,

I timed my new Transocean over 5 days and I have a small concern. It seems the watch, although well within COSC specs for this test period, gains an extra second per day. For example...

24 hours = 2 seconds fast over previous day's set time to time.gov

48 hours = 5 seconds fast total

72 hours = 8 seconds fast total

96 hours = 12 seconds fast total

120 hours = 16.5 seconds fast total

So it seems the watch is not gaining a steady X seconds per day but rather the seconds per day are increasing with each day. If I keep the test going for 10 days then on the 10th day the watch will gain more than the COSC spec for that 24 hour period.

Any thoughts on this?

Thank you


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 6:36 am 
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You are running +2-4.5 seconds fast per day correct?

+ 2 first day
+ another 3 2nd day
+ 3
+4
+4.5

I don't see the issue yet, -4/+6 every 24 hours is in spec. It wont increase every day over 10 days, it'll probably settle at some point soon. The watch needs a month to 'bed in' also. Give it 6 weeks or so and re-test.

Are you storing in the same position each night? Does it run differently if you flip it?


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 6:41 am 
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Hi,

Yes, I'm storing in the same position every night, face up. I wear it for the same amount of time approximately each day and to the same place. I have not touched the Chrono function at all for this test period.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 7:08 am 
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Try it face down or vertical in the box and see if you get different results, but what you have above is perfectly fine :)


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 7:17 am 
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Trying to time a watch daily will simply drive you to insanity. There are so many variables that would impact it even if it weren't still settling - humidity, temperature, power reserve, position, position changes, etc., etc., etc.

It will vary every day, that's just the way things are no matter how consistent you think your daily routine is.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:54 am 
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Thanks guys! I feel better now. I was also concerned because what I didn't mention yet was what started this test to being with...

The first day I received the watch from the boutique I set the time, then later that afternoon it was 14 seconds slow. Then I did the above test and that never happened again. From searches and research on here I now conclude that the boutique didn't fully wind the watch, neither did I that day. It seems that quite a few people with the 01 find that the watch slows down when reserve is low. Contrary to what (all things being equal :wink: ) is suppose to happen with a low reserve in any other movement.

Thanks again guys!


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 6:01 pm 
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Well the daily increase doesn't seem to be stopping. What started at +2 seconds over 24 hours has increased daily to now 7 second seconds over the last 24 hours.

Every day the watch gains more seconds per 24 hour period than the previous 24 hour period. Today it's out of COSC spec. If I were to wind the watch fully it will start at +2 seconds over the next 24 hours then the next 24 hours it will be +3, the next 24 hour it will be +4. After a week it will be out of COSC spec for that 24 hour period. Any ideas on what will cause a movement to do this? Why will the change increase more and more each day? Winding the watch fully will set it back to +2 seconds but only for that 24 hour period. Any help greatly appreciated. I thought it was going to settle and not pass 6 seconds but there's no limit to its increase so far.

I understand that there's going to be a break-in period but I'm a little concerned something else might be at play here?


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 3:57 am 
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Same andswer as before, stop timing it every 24 hours and wait several weeks for the watch to settle - or book time with a psychiatrist now because you will drive yourself crazy. Zero evidence there is anything wrong with the watch at this point.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 5:08 am 
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I'm a little confused. When people on here talk about timing there watch is it not over a 24 hour period? Furthermore, I have never read anything else but "precision is more important than accuracy". A watch consistently running plus 20 seconds per day would be better than what is happening here. Day to day fluctuations at a steady increase per day sounds like something is wrong to me. What starts out at +2s and increases every single day to now plus 7/day and tomorrow plus 8/day and so on that at day 15 the watch will have a swing that is wayyyy out of COSC standards compared to the first day. (They want a certain limit of difference between day 1 to day 15 as a precision parameter and I will be far passed that). Yes the watch may settle and I'll see if it does. I don't think I'm driving myself crazy at all. I noticed a possible issue and I'm asking a question.. if it doesn't settle what would cause this? I have never heard of a watch doing this and am looking for some knowledge. I'm asking anyone out there who may know. If not, you all will know once I post back the answer gained through my further research. You and I will then be able to answer a question like this in the future for someone else because we won't be ignorant.


Last edited by DrBalance on Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:45 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 5:20 am 
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Perhaps it's possessed. Perhaps it "knows" how long it was since a full wind and perhaps it "knows" to gain an extra second or two every day since the last wind.

Or perhaps it's just a series of wheels and pinions driven by a spring and regulated by another highly sensitive spring that is subject to numerous environmental vagaries - especially in Canada at this time of year when temperature swings can be extreme. Yes people time their watch in terms of accuracy over 24 hours, but not every 24 hours - time it after a week and divide the variance by 7 for example. But only after several weeks of settling.

I've got nothing more in this thread if you really think the watch is capable of figuring out how to gain an extra second or two every day.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 6:04 am 
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Or perhaps you're missing a simple explanation as to the reason for a watch misbehaving but too stubborn to be open to anything else other than your need to feel superior. If I am wrong, why treat people like this?

Roff, you're a good guy, I like you. I've been reading this forum for a few years and with it your posts. You are very knowledgeable but I have to inform you that every once in a while I've witnessed you stand in your own way of leaning anything new. Open-mindedness and asking questions is the key to more.


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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 2:23 pm 
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Another newby here, but I've read somewhere that as the mainspring winds down, an automatic watch tends to run faster...this might explain the variances you're observing. Maybe the best way to check precision is to have the watch wound to a similar degree, such as close to maximum.

Any other partially wound condition would be hard to duplicate, thereby making a precision estimate less reliable.


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PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 7:44 am 
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Valkrider wrote:
Another newby here, but I've read somewhere that as the mainspring winds down, an automatic watch tends to run faster...this might explain the variances you're observing. Maybe the best way to check precision is to have the watch wound to a similar degree, such as close to maximum.

Any other partially wound condition would be hard to duplicate, thereby making a precision estimate less reliable.


I thought about that too but now with the Navitimer 01 in comparison...

Both watches fully wound and sitting in the watchbox for the last 3 days. The Nav is consistently loosing 4.5 seconds per day exactly each and every 24 hour period. The Transocean with same movement sitting in the same watch box tags on an extra seconds each 24 hour period over the last 24 hour period, so far less consistent.


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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 9:45 am 
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Most isochronism specifications are for 24 hours. I usually let a watch run for a couple of days before regulating it. Then, after regulating it, I measure the amplitude with it fully wound. I repeat the measurement after 24 hours to see how well the amplitude is being maintained. I usually run a strip in all positions at both test points. That gives me a pretty good indication of how well I have done servicing the movement.

Are these watches on a winder at night? From the discussion, I get the impression that you are wearing the watch during the day and then letting it sit motionless at night. Then after several days you notice that it is gaining time at a higher rate. Are you treating both watches the same? Do you wear one on the first day and the other one on the second day, repeating the same exercise the following days? If not, you are comparing apples to oranges.

My suspicion is that there is not enough motion during daily wear to keep the mainspring fully wound. If you have a desk job, it is all the more likely. Over time, the power from the mainspring is decreasing ever so slightly. This results in reduced balance amplitude, which results in the watch gaining time at a faster rate. It is usually more dramatic if the balance is out of beat. There are a lot of variable that impact how well a watch keeps time.

If it really bothers you, any watchmaker with a good watch analyzer should be able to detect the change in amplitude. However, the only true test would be for you to let him measure it at the same time every day over your test period of several days. Otherwise, the test will be in vain. I, for one, would not be alarmed. After all, it is mechanical.

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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 5:39 am 
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onewatchnut wrote:
Most isochronism specifications are for 24 hours. I usually let a watch run for a couple of days before regulating it. Then, after regulating it, I measure the amplitude with it fully wound. I repeat the measurement after 24 hours to see how well the amplitude is being maintained. I usually run a strip in all positions at both test points. That gives me a pretty good indication of how well I have done servicing the movement.

Are these watches on a winder at night? From the discussion, I get the impression that you are wearing the watch during the day and then letting it sit motionless at night. Then after several days you notice that it is gaining time at a higher rate. Are you treating both watches the same? Do you wear one on the first day and the other one on the second day, repeating the same exercise the following days? If not, you are comparing apples to oranges.

My suspicion is that there is not enough motion during daily wear to keep the mainspring fully wound. If you have a desk job, it is all the more likely. Over time, the power from the mainspring is decreasing ever so slightly. This results in reduced balance amplitude, which results in the watch gaining time at a faster rate. It is usually more dramatic if the balance is out of beat. There are a lot of variable that impact how well a watch keeps time.

If it really bothers you, any watchmaker with a good watch analyzer should be able to detect the change in amplitude. However, the only true test would be for you to let him measure it at the same time every day over your test period of several days. Otherwise, the test will be in vain. I, for one, would not be alarmed. After all, it is mechanical.


Thank you for the info Onewatchnut,

In answering your question, the last test performed between both watches was not wearing it at all and letting them sit beside each other in a stationary watch box over the length of the 70 hour power reserve. Navitimer lost a consistent 3 seconds per day, every day. Whereas the Transocean gained 2 seconds the 1st day, 3 seconds the next day over the 1st, 5 seconds the next day over previous day. So on day one the watch gained 2 seconds over 24 a hour period, but on day three the watch gained 5 seconds over a 24 hr period.

My fear although not tested yet is that if I wear the Transocean over 15 days the gains over day 15's 24 hour period will be over 15-20 seconds which would be well out of COSC.


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