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 Post subject: need info on 812 GMT
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:26 pm 
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my second post so go easy. Bought my very first bling and received in mail today, was a gamble as the seller was not able to remove the case so I never got to see the movement before I shelled out.
Was going to have to have this sent straight to my watchmaker, decided I would try my much researched then 1 minute build, custom made stuck case back removal tool. Super glue and a big steel nut, wallah!! it works!! Bit of a hold your breath moment as the final threads were released, would I have a rusted out guts??, would I have any other movement but the 72-4?? whew, shiny and clean and yep its a 72-4. Yeah I know you guys think she's rough round the edges, well she might be but hey she's mine and she's my first. I do have a pretty flash replacement tritium dial to replace the old one but really for a late 60 girl I think its holding reasonable form.
Ok then where can I find a good resource for info on the 812 GMT, I have already scoured the www and theres not really much on offer, hoping some of the wise folk here or those that have done a restoration could help me out, I am a but of a research addict, Its just the way I am.
Forgot to add even though the chrono starts and stops sharply and returns to perfect position, how do I adjust the GMT hand, I figure its stuck as it moves when setting the hours and minutes, does the crown have one single position or two for setting? How do you set the GMT hand? The crown is unsigned so pretty sure its not original, also what's that black dot for on the left side of the case?, can't be helium release these are not water resist are they?

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 Post subject: Re: need info on 812 GMT
PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:45 pm 
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Well its been a while since I posted this, as yet no replies. Have found and purchased a replacement NOS dial, it looks really good in the hand, alas not perfect but as good as I will find IMHO, the Tritium lume is still active too, tried taking a pic but I don't have a tripod so sorry for the wobbles.
Also have found and purchased a pretty nice inner bezel ring which still shows some original blue on the upper section and has not faded to bronze/brownish colour, its not perfect but its all I could find on offer and had to pull the trigger when the opportunity presented.
This will never be a perfect watch as some examples I have seen on the www in my searches for information, there are some beauties in the thread "How to order Pizza". Anyway my humble project continues, next up I will be trying to find a replacement outer PVD bezel ring.

I have been told the PVD bezel ring from an 1806 may fit, can anyone confirm this?

Regarding the hands;
do I try to find NOS replacements or do I have them re painted. I can only find the hour and minute hands on ebay, the GMT hand looks fine as is but the orange subdial hands on my example have been repainted in gloss orange, the main hour and minute hands are faded, should these be left alone?

Found out what the black plug is for in the How to order pizza thread, so simple question but eventually found it is used to cover the bezel rings gear set.

Attached a few pics of the parts I have sourced so far, decided to buy a slightly used Breitling Military strap with black steel buckle as well. That's about it for now, the 812 has been forwarded to my watchmaker, will update again when I have something to tell, in the meantime any info from members would be appreciated, kind of starting to feel very alone on this one.
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 Post subject: Re: need info on 812 GMT
PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 9:00 pm 
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Presumably these are the ones you found

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1970s-Breitl ... SwgQ9VkBp8

The ones on your watch look fine though?



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 Post subject: Re: need info on 812 GMT
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:30 am 
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buddman,
Was actually these ones: https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Breitling-C ... 2677989525


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 Post subject: Re: need info on 812 GMT
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:40 am 
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My find a lot cheaper :-)



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 Post subject: Re: need info on 812 GMT
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:04 am 
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some of the unanswere dquestions:
bezel off an 1806 will fir
black plug on the left side of the middle case is a service/oiling access to the bezel mechanism, not a helium valve
"GMT" hand on the 724 can't be set independently, it shows time in a 24h format.



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 Post subject: Re: need info on 812 GMT
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:38 pm 
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Well its a really small world, turns out the NOS inner bezel I purchased from ebay was actually from a forum member :bow: "cal_11"
much help has come from this member to assist in the restoration which I am really grateful for.
Thanks also to the members who have replied in this thread, every tiny bit of info, regardless of how insignificant this may feel it seems, means a great deal and each piece is accumulating to help assist me with gradually building a reliable resource.
Thanks to the forum and to members, keep it coming!!!! 8)


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 Post subject: Re: need info on 812 GMT
PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 7:01 pm 
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Most people on this forum, and any watch forum for that matter, are watch flippers. Find my first thread (and my other threads) on this forum and you will see nobody has a clue about technical questions. I have done 4 times on this forum and figured out the answers eventually on my own.

The hands Buddman suggested are wrong for your watch!!! Those hands ARE ONLY for ref 1809 and WILL NEVER FIT 812 or 2115. I have clarified that question in my first thread on this forum. I admit the question was TOO TECHNICAL and you have to read it 3 times to understand it. But a watch flipper has a watch maker to take care of that issue.. As I have explained there, on Ref 1809 you have only ONE hour hand (12 hours) but on GMT watches like 812 and 2115 you have TWO sets of hour hands (12 hour hand and 24 hour hand) therefore you have two sets of wheels on the top of each other. I explained this to the seller with wrong description and he didn't like it. He didn't change his description. Actually, it becomes more ridiculous if you think that GMT Ref. 812 uses a Valjoux 72, while GMT 2115 uses a Chronomatic movement based on Caliber 11 and the diameter of the hour hands are different on these two movements. Therefore, if you make the mistake and buy his hands you will be confused like I was and will open another thread, which I have already explained. I would suggest to either paint your hour and sweep second hands to the same color as the subdial hands. Or find the right hands.

As for the plug on the left hands side, I can tell you a few things but short is as you have found out already, the bezel gear is behind the plug. But because you can not install the driving mechanism (gear) for the bezel from inside the case, therefore it needs to be installed from outside. The plug supposed to make the case water resistant.

I haven't finished my 2115 GMT project, because I haven't found all parts to finish the movement yet, therefore, I can not tell you how to set the Hour and GMT time. Fred said it already, that can be set independently, which is logical, but I guess your question is, whether there are two positions to set the hour hand and GMT hand? You can ask this question also on Heuer GMT owners, because your watch has the same exact technology as Heuer GMT watches. The right question is then: Are there two positions to set the HOUR and GMT hands? Maybe there is a Heuer GMT manual somewhere that explains the question.

As for bezel, because the case is the same size in all models, you can use any bezel from any model on your case. But before you start hunting and driving the price of the black bezel high by bidding like CRAZY on eBay, send your old bezel to some PVD makers. Actually, that bezel is only painted black, because PVD technology wasn't invented in the 60's. So find some source to paint the bezel black for $50 or so. I have seen some good results online.

I don't understand why you would buy a mint dial with glowing markers and a new inner bezel for an old case? I see, you paid 302 Euro for that inner bezel??? It was only the red triangle paint missing on your inner bezel, which is fixable?


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 Post subject: Re: need info on 812 GMT
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 1:05 am 
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Thanks chrono-matic-guy for your detailed and informative reply.

You are spot on, those hands will never fit, you can see the seating is different, after looking over ebay it is annoyingly confusing: Cue misinformation, as the sellers don't seem to know what models the hands will actually fit and as such have not moved forward with a purchase.

Regarding the GMT hand setting, I have been informed from 2 separate sources outside of the forum that the GMT hour hand is fixed and cannot be set independently, like say for example in an Omega Flightmaster although this uses it's own Independant crown. So the GMT hand appears to be fixed and simply moves at half speed to the regular hour hound to give a 24 hour indication as per the outer arabic numbers of the 812 Dial.

chrono-matic-guy: I will read your first post with interest, thanks for the tip!!

Well regarding ebay I have not seen any PVD bezels running on auction, so no fear of me driving prices up. Also ebay Australia seems to have restricted results of worldwide searches from an Australian ISP and a using a VPN does not seem to make any difference, so the results I see will be totally different to what you see.
This has eventuated from ebay arguing with the Australian government on GST from ebay sources and who pays it, so ebay in conjunction with the OZ gov I suspect have deliberately restricted the search results worldwide available to Australian buyers through the ISP address or maybe your country of ebay account.
To elaborate on this policy, this will also have the effect of driving prices on available items to Australia ebay from worldwide search results available to Australian sellers, so from an Australian perspective it now falsely has created the condition, this being it would present that the opportunity for some items is now seemingly more scarce, so Australian buyers will pay more, great if you're an overseas seller.

As for my purchase price of the 812 inner bezel ring I actually think it was a fair price when considering condition, rarity and the fact that someone else bid 290 Euro, so i am not alone in my valuation. Original NOS parts for my Flightmaster were not that much different in price and by far more were made and sold in comparison. So I guess it's subjective really, and the value one individual places on a particular part may vary wildly to the next guy and greatly depends on the desire of the bidder.

FYI I NEVER BID and have not done for years, I set my snipe weeks in advance and let the chips fall where they may.

So why would I pay that price, well you only live once and I will not deny myself of what I want or need and quibble over $100 to achieve a goal, as for driving prices up I don't see how I can be held personally responsible as I never submit more than my single snipe bid, and if it were not me being the winning bidder, it would be in the possession of someone else.
So good....... to my mind if parts demand and prices increase as I regard the 812 GMT value as understated, even if this is only on a local level.

I forecast value on what I consider investment items which helps me attain my buy price. I am not what I would consider a man of great means, but my life experience has taught me when an opportunity arises you either negate and deal with the knowing regret that will follow or do whatever you must to take that opportunity when it rises. In addition, I am not a flipper, the watches I have purchased over the last 15 years I still have so I purchase nothing for short term gain regarding this interest.
Parts for the Breitling 812 will eventually get to the point of drying up altogether, any that do arise will be like trying to buy parts for a UG SpaceCompax imho.

Thanks for your informative input chrono-matic-guy, I respect your enthusiasm and obvious experience and am grateful for you sharing your thoughts.


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