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 Post subject: Ref 2005 from 1964?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:02 pm 
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Anybody ever seen one like this? With a second counter and a serial number that says the watch is from 1964.
I thought they got to production in 1965, is this a kind of prototype?
Serial no:991494
Very interesting. Image


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 Post subject: Re: Ref 2005 from 1964?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:50 pm 
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Its a bullshit piece , like 20 others in that auction
Mk3 dial and movement in a mk1 case

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 Post subject: Re: Ref 2005 from 1964?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:53 pm 
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Oh , and the dial has been reprinted incorrectly as well :(

the mk3 dial has square lume on the hour markers , they made these round
they 'forgot' the numbers on the running seconds and the breitling 'B' is in an incorrect font

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 Post subject: Re: Ref 2005 from 1964?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:53 pm 
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I wondered why they just put up one pics online.
Thanks rene.


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 Post subject: Re: Ref 2005 from 1964?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:57 pm 
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Dracha wrote:
Oh , and the dial has been reprinted incorrectly as well :(

the mk3 dial has square lume on the hour markers , they made these round
they 'forgot' the numbers on the running seconds and the breitling 'B' is in an incorrect font



Did you see ref.108 by Henry’s? It exists :) not just in pictures ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Ref 2005 from 1964?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:05 pm 
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Mortys wrote:
Did you see ref.108 by Henry’s? It exists :) not just in pictures ;)



link may help?

and the SO 2005 existed in pictures ?

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 Post subject: Re: Ref 2005 from 1964?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:08 pm 
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Dracha wrote:
Mortys wrote:
Did you see ref.108 by Henry’s? It exists :) not just in pictures ;)



link may help?

and the SO 2005 existed in pictures ?

https://m.invaluable.com/#lot/2C64B2191D


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 Post subject: Re: Ref 2005 from 1964?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:14 pm 
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Mortys wrote:


thats a well known late 1970ies quartz watch ?

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 Post subject: Re: Ref 2005 from 1964?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:14 pm 
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Well the one SO in that french auction just existed in their picture and not left the factory in that shape ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Ref 2005 from 1964?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:17 pm 
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Dracha wrote:
Mortys wrote:


thats a well known late 1970ies quartz watch ?

It’s not a quartz it’s an automatic selfwinding. I think from ‘75 ImageImage


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 Post subject: Re: Ref 2005 from 1964?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:33 pm 
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Mortys wrote:
Well the one SO in that french auction just existed in their picture and not left the factory in that shape ;)


maybe I am misunderstanding something
Are you saying that because the ref 108 is undocumented in an official catalog (or at least not a catalog we have been able to find) the french SO2005 , which is also undocumented , therefor is a a genuine prototype watch ?

If that is what you believe to be a correct assumption ,who am I to argue ?

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 Post subject: Re: Ref 2005 from 1964?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 7:11 pm 
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Dracha wrote:
Mortys wrote:
Well the one SO in that french auction just existed in their picture and not left the factory in that shape ;)


maybe I am misunderstanding something
Are you saying that because the ref 108 is undocumented in an official catalog (or at least not a catalog we have been able to find) the french SO2005 , which is also undocumented , therefor is a a genuine prototype watch ?

If that is what you believe to be a correct assumption ,who am I to argue ?

No Rene i do not have any assumptions, certainly not with knowleageable people like you, fred, kurt, dave, ....
Just curious and eager to learn. That’s all :)


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 Post subject: Re: Ref 2005 from 1964?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:34 am 
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well...
remember the 2005 uses a Breitling-exclusive modification ("slow motion" chrono minute center hand, activity index at 6) of the original Venus cal.188...
When Venus SA was closed down in late 1966 production was moved to Valjoux, the Venus 188 was then renamed Valjoux R7730, the modified Breitling-variation R7731 - but the "running seconds" variation of the SuperOcean ref. 2005 was only introduced with the Mk2 in 1970 or 1971 - so how did that running seconds slow motion movement end up in an undocumented 1964 "prototype" ?


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 Post subject: Re: Ref 2005 from 1964?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:47 am 
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WatchFred wrote:
well...
remember the 2005 uses a Breitling-exclusive modification ("slow motion" chrono minute center hand, activity index at 6) of the original Venus cal.188...
When Venus SA was closed down in late 1966 production was moved to Valjoux, the Venus 188 was then renamed Valjoux R7730, the modified Breitling-variation R7731 - but the "running seconds" variation of the SuperOcean ref. 2005 was only introduced with the Mk2 in 1970 or 1971 - so how did that running seconds slow motion movement end up in an undocumented 1964 "prototype" ?



That's exactly what i thought and i could not think of an answer. The reason why asking the professionals ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Ref 2005 from 1964?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:27 am 
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re the "undocumented" Chronomat ref. 108, see "B" on the left
Image



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