The Breitling Watch Source Forums

I'm looking at vintage on ebay for several brands. Do I have to worry about replicas or not?
Were they replicating watches back in the 60's and 70's?

You might get a better reply posting this in the vintage forum - since you're not asking about a single watch. Those guys in there know their vintage good.

Alright, can you move it over then?
Thanks.

Hi JoJo,

I do believe that you have to be careful about fake/replica Breitlings even in the vintage market, although they're less common. Actually, I should state that the vintage pieces probably don't use cheap movements but they do use pieces from different movements, some of which may not be produced by Breitling. Ebay has a seller from Argentina that seems to me quite suspicious. All the Breitlings he sells are from the 40s and have re-finished dials that look rather bizarre in their design. Just use care. Frankly, I have only purchased one vintage Breitling from Ebay and that one is authentic but I'm not taking any more chances.

There has been some strange looking vintage watches that are migrating up from South America and also Italy, and Turkey. Most of these have nothing to do with real Breitling's and are nothing more than vintage watches of other brands that have been modified to show the name Breitling on the dial. In some cases I have seen these watches modified with a laser to show the name Breitling on the movement bridge and on either side of the back cover. Now I think these watches are being seen from US and European sellers because they've bought these franken watches from those above, realized they're not what they were represented to be (authentic), and are now selling them again on the internet.

My suggestion is for those interested in vintage Breitlings to at least get a copy of Benno Richter's Breitling book and become familiar with it's contents. When you see a prospect come up do a little research before you leap. It's most difficult to identify Breitling's from twenties to forties because most didn't have Breitling on the movements and sometimes not on the back cover either. Gold watches are particularly difficult. I'll usually look for something in Richter's book that's near enough to make me comfortable with a purchase. I've actually lost watches because I was doing research prior to buying them and then they were gone. Sometimes that's been a good thing and other times I've missed out. It is a bit of a gamble that's why I suggest you stick with watches that are covered in the Richter book. You can hardly go wrong unless the seller has gone to great lengths to deceive.

The other side of the vintage experience is that you're getting a watch that can be fifty or sixty years old in some cases. They almost always require maintenance of some sort. Most watchmakers are asking around $250 to service a chronograph + additional if parts are needed. What at first seems like a good deal can quickly become a major expense. Good examples that have been recently serviced and without major visual flaws usually will reflect that in the asking price.

I think the vintage Breitling's will appreciate as more collectors become aware they're available. The Navitimers, Cosmonauts, and vintage Chronomats are hot at the moment and as these get bought up the market will also move over to other vintage Breiltings.

Know what you're looking at is the first step.

Good luck!

Paul L

Paul, maybe I'm slaughtering a holy cow, but the book of Benno Richter isn't what most people think it is. There are appr. 30 or more mistakes, mainly in the lists at the end of the book.
On page 133 there is even a Frankenstein watch: The stainless steel AOPA Navitimer has a dial of a gilded or golden watch. Also the hands are of a gilded or golden watch. The minute, hour and chrono hand are from a Navitimer of the sixties. The slide rule has red numerals and markers. Such sliderules were first used in the sixties. The missing luminous of the numerals of the dial is another reason to make alarm bells ring.
There are similar Frankenstein Navitimers on Ebay. If somebody follows your advice to compare the offered watches with the pictures in the book of Benno Richter, then he could be spending lots of money for something that isn't worth more than its parts.

Best regards,
Chris

Nobody said Richter's book was the Breitling bible. It has mistakes and lots of omissions, especially on the model and reference number pages. Just because it doesn't show up on the lists doesn't mean it's not correct. The idea of using the book as a reference is that there isn't anything that I've found that is 100% accurate. The Richter book does a better job than most of showing examples for comparison. You have to do the rest of the research yourself as you can bet you'll eventually get stung with a fake or recreation if you don't. As for the watch on page 133, you see they quote the value at $800-$900. If it was 100% correct that would be closer to $2800-$2900.

Paul L

Although in the 2007 reprint (which is identical except for price updates) it has become an $1,800 - $2,000 piece!

Have to agree though, while far from perfect I don't know of a better source for information. Definitely a case of buyer beware though, and anyone who drops 4 figures on a watch based solely on a picture in a book has far too much disposable income

My Vote: You guys here should get together and write a better book!!!

I know next to nothing about vintage Lings.. but one day I will consult the advice of you fellows here and get one.. seems like the prices keep going up though

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Don't know much about any other "Ling" (...pretty difficult for me, I'm still capable to pronounce/write the whole word) but Navitimers 806/Cosmonaute 809. Concerning these watches the ascertainment is correct. Vintage Navitimers (806)/Cosmonautes (809) - within one year only - have reached a market price that is appr. 25% higher than last year. This is almost the rate of depreciation of new watches.
For me this was enough to strive for Navitimers. I have been pretty lucky, I guess. Since March last year I bought a 1964 and a 1955 Navitimer.
Since the book of Benno Richter can't be really trusted when it comes to vintage Navitimers, there is a much better source for information: http://people.timezone.com/breitling/bf ... timer.html

Chris

Kurt's site is great for Navitimers. But that's all he deals in is Navitimers. The guy buys and sells more Nav's in a week than I've owned in 10 years. He certainly knows them better than just about anyone else except maybe the Heist's whose job is to repair vintage Breitling's in the US. I actually like Jean-Michel's site because of the examples of just about every version although the server is sort of slow with the pics.

http://www.lesmala.net/jean-michel/navitimer/

Paul L

I sold all of my vintage Breitling's ln the last week or so. The last one is on ebay now. Decided that you're correct in your assessment that it's getting more expensive. Watches that cost $250 a couple of years ago are now selling for $1000. $1500 chrono's are going for $4000 now. Pretty much anyone, including Chris K, can figure out the Navitimers because there's so much information online and in different publications to go by but try determining the authenticity of anything from about the 1920's through the 1950's that isn't a Chronomat or Navitimer. There isn't a lot out there.

I'm collecting another different make vintage chrono at the moment and have six. They're priced right, plentiful, and I expect them to be good investments in the next five years. Not going to tell you what they are because I don't want any competition. Plus, I'm also collecting some vintage WW2 watches that are interesting too. Because of this I won't be around here as much but will still check in probably on the weekends.

Regards.

Paul

That's too bad.. you were a knowledgeable guy to have at the forum! Hope you can cash in on your other watches in a few years.. maybe come back to Lings again.

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Agreed, you are a wealth of knowledge Paul - we'll miss you being around.

I have to agree with you on pricing, especially gold pieces - and the Argentinian pieces are adding fuel to the fire. I see so many pieces that are just 'regular' 40s / 50s watches going for crazy prices recently. Add to that the fact that no one seems to care if the watch has no provenance and it's turning into a fools game - I just wish I wasn't afflicted with terminal Breitlingitis!!