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 Post subject: Airforce chrono
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:12 am 
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Is this military Breitling for real?

http://www.vintagewatch.ca/?p=314#more-314

One pusher chronograph for the Canadian Airforce.
Would be a cool match for my Heuer chronograph for the Norwegian Airforce.

Have anyone seen one before?

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 Post subject: Re: Airforce chrono
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:22 am 
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I've never seen anything like it, and pretty sure that it's a frankenwatch.

Breitling serial number dates it to 1977 - which clearly it isn't.

I'll check and see if I can find a single pusher like this, but all of the single pushers that I am familiar with are much earlier and with a crown pusher.


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 Post subject: Re: Airforce chrono
PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 11:49 am 
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This watch is 100 % genuine, excuse me please, my english is not perfect, therefor I send it in german, maybe someone can translate it.

Please look here: http://www.flying-time.de/wbb2/thread.php?threadid=3143

Breitling - Royal Canadian Air Force Beschreibung:
Bei der Uhr handelt es sich um einen seltenen eigens für die kanadische Luftwaffe, Royal Canadian Air Force (RCAF), ausgeführten Rüstungsauftrag aus den 60er Jahren. Sie wurde als Fliegeruhr im sogenannten Eindrückerprinzip konzipiert. Das Ziffernblatt blieb unsigniert. Krone, Werk und Innendeckel waren Breitling signiert. Auf dem Rückdeckel befindet sich die militärische Versorgungsnummer. Für die Uhr gibt es aufgrund der ausschließlich militärischen Verwendung keine Breitlingreferenznummer. Beim Werk handelt es sich um das Valjoux 236 mit Schaltrad und Stoppsekunde, welches äußerst selten anzutreffen ist. Das Gehäuse ist aus Edelstahl. Das Ziffernblatt ist Tritium belegt. Der Durchmesser der Uhr ohne Krone beträgt ca. 36,5 mm. Die Uhr ist im Originalzustand; das Band ist neueren Datums. Vermutlich wurde damals ein NATO-Band getragen. Militärische Signatur: Auf dem Rückdeckel ist zu lesen: D.N.D S/N NS 1086 STOCK NO 6645/21/802/1267 Übersetzung: Department of National Defence (Verteidigungsministerium) Serial Number, NS1086 (laufende Nummer der Uhr) Stock Number (nato stock code) 6645-21-802-1267 (individuelle NATO Gerätenummer für Chronographen dieses Typs, 21 ist das Länderkennzeichen für Kanada innerhalb der NATO). Geschichte: Die kanadische Luftwaffe orderte Ende in den 60er Jahren für ihre Piloten Uhren bei verschiedenen Herstellern, namentlich Omega, Breitling, Lemania, Birks und Rodania.
Bei der Breitling handelt sich um ein Modell, welches ausschließlich für militärische Zwecke bestimmt war und deshalb nie auf dem freien Markt erhältlich war. Sie durchlief die Tauglichkeitsprüfung der RCAF für die speziellen Anforderungen im Einsatz.
In den neunziger Jahren wurden diese Uhren offiziell ausgemustert und noch erhaltene Stück gelangten über staatliche Auktionen in Sammlerkreise. Einige Exemplare wurden zusammen mit ihren Trägern aus den Staatsdiensten entlassen. Einschätzung als Sammleruhr: Unter den genannten Herstellern zählt die Breitling neben der Omega zu den seltensten Ausführungen. Es gibt praktisch kein Angebot und wenn sind oftmals nicht originale Teile verbaut worden. Damit ist die Uhr sowohl aus der Sicht von Militäruhrensammlern als auch als Breitlingsammelobjekt eine absolute Rarität. Innerhalb der militärischen Breitlinglinie ist sie weitaus seltener als die gelegentlich angebotenen Uhren der irakischen Luftwaffe. Literatur: Vgl. Konrad Knirim, British Military Timepieces, Bottrop 2009, S. 732 William Schorr, Zero Hour - A Photographic Reference of Military Timepieces, o.O. 2009 (Nur Bilder der Omegavariante). Bilder:
Walter Castillo, M.A. Administrator für Flieger- und Militäruhren www.flying-time.de


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 Post subject: Re: Airforce chrono
PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 11:57 am 
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Sorry, still don't agree and to be as diplomatic as possible............

The source of proof doesn't inspire confidence.


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 Post subject: Re: Airforce chrono
PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 12:17 pm 
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Please look in Knirim, if you dont believe, Literatur: Vgl. Konrad Knirim, British Military Timepieces, Bottrop 2009, S. 732 William Schorr, Zero Hour - A Photographic Reference of Military Timepieces, o.O. 2009

I know this guy (moderator of flying-time.de) very goog and he has big experience about military watches


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 Post subject: Re: Airforce chrono
PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 12:44 pm 
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I'm sorry - I still have issues.

The two instances have different hands, so clearly something ain't right somewhere.

One claims to be late 60s while the other claims to be early 70s and they both have a 1977 serial number.

I'll freely admit that in the couple of years pre bankruptcy things were getting a little crazy at Breitling, but something is not right here.


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 Post subject: Re: Airforce chrono
PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 12:49 pm 
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I agree with you , this watches are from 1977, not of the 1960s, but they are 100 % genuine,

Breitling produced the one-pusher-chronographs very late only for military.

I have also one, but you dont let me show my pictures in your only forum.


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 Post subject: Re: Airforce chrono
PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 12:51 pm 
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breitlingmuseum wrote:
I have also one, but you dont let me show my pictures in your only forum.


The photo links not working is a software thing - post the pictures on photobucket or as attachments (below 250k) and they'll show fine.


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 Post subject: Re: Airforce chrono
PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 1:49 pm 
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The two instances have different hands, so clearly something ain't right somewhere.


I think it can be correct with the differnt hands. I have also the Breitling reference 768 with this 2 kinds of hands, and I have found photos of this 768 with both hands, one in my original Breitling catalog of 1946, page 406, the other kind in the new Breitling Book page 87.

Excuse, but I cant send photos, because you also dont allow attachments (below 250k) of my photos.


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 Post subject: Re: Airforce chrono
PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 2:35 pm 
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I also have concluded that this is a genuine Breitling RCAF chronograph. I have found more fact out there in cyberspace, and it's pictured in the new Breitling book.

See one of the pages I found: http://www.mwrforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1284

Image

"In the 1950s and 60s, the RCAF (Royal Canadian Air Force) made relatively small purchase orders from a handful of companies and besides Rodania, similar watches were ordered through Birks, Breitling, Universal Genève and Omega (including many examples that have no indication that they were made by any specific brand!). These one-button pusher chronograph wrist watches all had white dials (artillery style with luminous dots), screw-back stainless steel cases and good quality Swiss movements that *hacked*."

The hands seems wrong, but apart from that I think it's the real thing.

But the price is to high....

regards
Jarl

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 Post subject: Re: Airforce chrono
PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 4:27 pm 
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Jarl Fr. wrote:
I also have concluded that this is a genuine Breitling RCAF chronograph. I have found more fact out there in cyberspace, and it's pictured in the new Breitling book.

See one of the pages I found: http://www.mwrforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1284

Image

"In the 1950s and 60s, the RCAF (Royal Canadian Air Force) made relatively small purchase orders from a handful of companies and besides Rodania, similar watches were ordered through Birks, Breitling, Universal Genève and Omega (including many examples that have no indication that they were made by any specific brand!). These one-button pusher chronograph wrist watches all had white dials (artillery style with luminous dots), screw-back stainless steel cases and good quality Swiss movements that *hacked*."

The hands seems wrong, but apart from that I think it's the real thing.

But the price is to high....

regards
Jarl


That all makes much more sense to me - the look of these is 50s / 60s. The 1977 serial numbers are just bizarre on a watch that has this look.


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 Post subject: Re: Airforce chrono
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:09 am 
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breitlingmuseum wrote:
Please look in Knirim, if you dont believe, Literatur: Vgl. Konrad Knirim, British Military Timepieces, Bottrop 2009, S. 732 William Schorr, Zero Hour - A Photographic Reference of Military Timepieces, o.O. 2009

I know this guy (moderator of flying-time.de) very goog and he has big experience about military watches

I have corresponded with Konrad in the past on early military timepieces. He does extensive research. I find his books to be a valuable resource. He is also willing to share his knowledge, but I don't pester him too much. His English is much better than my German.

Interesting watch too!

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