The Breitling Watch Source Forums

Fist, what grade ti does Breitling use? Second, what metal is stronger, and will last longer, ti or SS?

Not sure of the grade of Ti used in Breitling watches. The SS is 316L.

In general I would say that SS is more durable. Steel is an amazingly robust material. On the other hand, I've seen reports on this forum of Ti thread on crowns being repeatedly stripped out. This is not out of the realm of possibility because most Ti alloys are much more brittle than steel.

Also the finish on a SS watch persists a lot longer. The matte look of the Ti (resulting from a thin layer of oxide) scratches easily and the overall appearance can be marred.

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“The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once.” - Albert Einstein

Hmm... should i expect my crown to strip out? what watch did that mostly happen on? i own an avenger seawolf

Oh, no, is Breitling threading Ti into Ti?

I am still a watch noob, but from time spent as a bike mechanic I know that titanium parts don't work well with other titanium parts. You have to put teflon tape on Ti bolts to get them to stick and unstick.

Peace

Mike

Ian's basically said it all before I could get to it!

As mentioned, ti can have a tendancy to "self weld". There are cases of screw thread casebacks practically welding themselves into the case over time and being nigh on impossible to remove.....

In terms of durability, then (again) Ian is quite correct that SS is generally less brittle than ti (certainly the Grade 5 ti used in watchmaking) and is an incredibly robust and durable material. The surface of 316L stainless steel is also pretty unreactive, so it tends not to corrode or oxidise over time.

The titanium oxide layer that ti develops can indeed be scratched and hence leave a much brighter mark on the case, but over time it tends to "heal itself" to a certain extent when the surface of the scratched area oxidises. (I doesn't really "heal" but just makes the scratch less visible as the colour of the scratch blends in with the rest of the case more).

Where titanium wins hands-down is on it's strength to weight ratio as it actually has the highest strength to weight ratio of any element, let alone the metals. It has comparable strength to steel, but is more than 40% lighter. This is why it's such an important metal for the aviation and space industries.

Personally, I would always take SS over ti for a watch, but that's because I actually LIKE my watches to have a bit of heft to them, I prefer the finish you get from SS (both brushed and polished) over the dullness of ti, and I've also found ti to be a little scratch-happy (as outlined above).

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Driver8

Site Moderator

For the crown in the TI Seawolf Avenger, it seems that they are threading TI into TI.

I had the crown completely strip out on my Seawolf back in 2006. I sent it in to Breitling for repair. The bill was $705 after taxes and shipping.

They had to replace the "Titanium Mid-Case" that the crown screws down upon. It was listed as titanium on the service invoice. They didn't replace the crown itself, just this "midcase". They required a full surevice be done and replaced the hands.

The watch was fine until earlier this year, when the crown seemed to take less turns to lock.

Mind you, I babied this crown after the repair. I never screwed it down too tight, I put on a winder to limit the number of times that I had to unscrew and screw the crown....etc..

Then, I went to change the date and the crown wouldn't screw down on the mid case at all. It would just turn and lock in one motion. It would hold tight, then it would fail and pop out.

Knowing that an expensive repair bill was awaiting me AGAIN, I sold the watch with FULL Disclousure of the problem and it's complete service history so the new owner would know how much it was to be fixed. I sold it low enough that he could have it fixed and still get a good deal off what pre-owned Seawolf would sell for...I just was fed up with it and bought a Super Avenger instead.

An AD that I frequent has confirmed that he's seen a number Seawolves sent in for repair of their crowns. This was a contributing factor in the models being switched to SS for all the Avenger line...

I asked the same question as the OP when I first joined on here.

Since then I have never found that particular bit of info.

I can say that Breitling's grade of titanium is a lot tougher than Tissot's. Its quite durable and actually seems to take quite some effort to work out a scratch

This is a good source of titanium info: http://www.benjaminbikes.com/images/ASTM.doc

Well. Hmmm. I'm neither an industrial engineer nor a watch designer, but this has been an observed and documented issue with Ti in several industries for many years. As Driver8 points out, it's fairly widely known that two different Ti parts can stick so badly they are effectively welded together. Let's just hope that Breitling can sort the problem out.

As I pointed out earlier, thread tape is available to prevent this; Loctite makes a good product.

Peace

Mike

It seems that Breiltings solution was to stop using Titanium for all the Avenger models, even the quartz chrono..

If you have a TI seawolf, watch out. I don't think that Bretling will put the money in re-designing the crown assembly on an out of production watch. I also wouldn't expect them to do the repairs for free. They were going to charge me again for the same repair of the crown if I had sent it in...

I really liked the watch and prefer Titanium to steel, but I realized I was going to continue to have to pay for fixing Breitling's design flaw with that model, so I ended my ownership of that watch..

Unfortunately, the crown (on all watches with all manufacturers, and not just ti models) is always a contentious point when it comes to warranty claims as it is very difficult to prove that a failure is as a result of a manufacturing defeat or missuse. Hence generally speaking the crown is always an exception to what may otherwise be a very comprehensive warranty.

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Driver8

Site Moderator